[00:00:00] Kalen: Dude, it's telling me to create a username, so maybe I am in it might be in, dude, they might have let people in. I think I'm in, dude, it's pretty sick.

[00:00:09] David: Yeah. This is what I'm doing this weekend.

[00:00:15] Kalen: Hell yeah, dude. I don't need to clean up leaves or play with my children. I'm gonna generate AI videos. Right. A little more screen time. Just a little bit more. Just a little bit more. Just getting a little more of that screen time baby.

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[00:01:23] Dude, when I ran into you. After I hadn't seen you for years and all of a sudden you just seem like a cool ass fucking rocker type dude. Like you used to be like, sort of, I don't know. You seemed more like nerdy back in the day. I feel like you had some kind of rock and roll glow up or some shit with my short hair.

[00:01:42] No. I've always been a, a rock and roller deep inside. Maybe it just finally came out. I just didn't, I didn't catch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't, I think it wasn't as immediately visible, whereas now it's like your vibe is like immediately right in your face. I'm a cool ass rock and roll type dude. That's great.

[00:02:08] David: I don't know know what else to say about that. That's really good to hear, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much.

[00:02:14] Kalen: Much. Do you get nervous with like compliments? Does it like, oh yeah. I cannot. I can't. I cannot. I'm like, every time someone says something I'm like, well, that's probably not fully true, but like they probably don't mean that all the way.

[00:02:31] Right. You ever do that? All the time? All the time. Although I actually have some counterpoints to what you're saying about me right now. No. Although I do feel like more recently I've been getting like more confident in that sense. Mm-hmm. And it kind of makes me uncomfortable because. I kind of feel like the type of person who wouldn't be self-deprecating is kind of like an asshole,

[00:02:59] David: you know?

[00:03:00] And

[00:03:00] Kalen: I feel like I, but you still feel like you can't take compliments? No, it's still like a bit uncomfortable, but I, I guess I'm feeling more like, oh yeah, whatever, what they compliment me on, like that is true. Like I believe that, you know, that's good I think in like a healthy way, but it feels like, I'm like, what's the difference between those type of people that are kind of just assholes and like people that aren't?

[00:03:24] I'm like trying to crack the code in my head. Self-confidence. That's probably it. I don't know. Like, yeah, I, I feel like at this point in my life, I've seen enough videos where they explain how you're supposed to take a compliment. Mm-hmm. So I just mm-hmm. Have kind of figured it out maybe, but ran problem still doesn't feel right.

[00:03:47] Um, okay. All right. That's enough of that bullshit. Yeah. Let's talk about my viral tweet. Yeah. But by the way, dude, I listened to the last episode and I felt like I was interrupting you constantly. Did you feel that way? I don't think so. I don't remember feeling like that. Yeah. Okay. It's so weird because I am, I don't know.

[00:04:10] Okay. All right. That's cool. I just had to check on it. So, cleared the waters we're good. Yeah. I have a little banger tweet that finally popped off. I got like a hundred thousand views or something like that. Um, which for me is like, that happens like once a year, once a every year or so, and then I get all excited and then it goes back to like, you know, absolutely not, like you always want your stuff.

[00:04:38] You see these people that always get tons of numbers and you're like, I'm gonna be one of those people now. And then it's like, nah, dude, nah. Yeah. You gotta get three likes on average if you're lucky. And be grateful for it. It was a good tweet. Did you like take a little Twitter hiatus for a little bit?

[00:04:55] Nah. What do you mean? Maybe it was just the algorithm put you in my p Oh, the algorithm is like, it, it knows, it knows that you think my shit is bullshit, like it's getting smarter. I guess so it's like it knows that you're just like kind of annoyed, like it analyzes your engagement patterns and recognizes like it See that I don't like every single tweet so that Yeah, it's like, so that you don't feel like I'm stalking you.

[00:05:21] Yeah. It's like we can tell we're gonna let you off the hook. You don't have to pretend to follow anymore. Like, we'll, you know, but like, that's good. We'll handle it smoothly, like gracefully. Perfect. That's what I need. I need AI in my feed silently. Removing tape. But it was funny because basically all, and it was like, all I said was like, Toby tweeted.

[00:05:45] Thousand 48 Variant said, he is like, oh yeah, they fixed, uh, some bad code I wrote 12 years ago. And all he said was like, most infamous technical debt of all time, whatever. And it's like, it's like there's a million times where I think I'm posting something funny and you are like, nobody cares at all. You know?

[00:06:03] And for some reason it just got a bunch of likes and stuff. And then, oh, and then somebody replied and they go, they were like, yeah, Shopify sucks. Rails doesn't scale. And then I like quote, tweeted that. And I was like, absolutely. I was like, I'm personally, I'm going back to Magento because Rails really doesn't scale.

[00:06:24] And then I got a DM from like the head of a like software vendor sort of in the general space. And they were like, Hey, I saw your post about PHP and. Was wondering if you might want to talk about my platform in that thread. There's this one where this guy's like asking you if you need a video editor.

[00:06:56] David: I,

[00:07:00] Kalen: those are my favorites, the clown tweets. I genuinely almost spit out my shaker right now. Um, but so it's funny, dude, I keep, like I said, I don't feel like I'm as nice of a person, so it's like now. If somebody's wasting my time with a spam thing, like the other day I was gonna DM one of these guys that DMed me and I was just gonna lead him on for like a week or something.

[00:07:28] Like making him think he gotta sale. Like I want to do something to genuinely annoy him because he's genuinely annoying me. Like it's fair, it's kind of fair. It's literally only fair. And they do it at such volume that even though it's a minor annoyance, when you multiply it out, it's actually a significant annoyance.

[00:07:48] So if I can get this guy to spend money to verify his, some spammer in some third world country or something like that. And he's like, he goes, I can't DM you. And I'm like, that sounded very racist, by the way, to say third world country like that. I apologize. That was awkward. He's like, can I help you with the video or something like that.

[00:08:08] And then I was like, yeah, absolutely. And then he was like. I can't DM you. And I was like, you gotta get verified, man. So if I can get him to get verified, spend 10 bucks, DM me, he's like, it's worth it. 'cause I have a client, he's gonna pay me a hundred bucks, guaranteed at least someone to spend this 10 bucks.

[00:08:26] And I'll be like, I'm just kidding brother. You should really stop spending people like, I'll, and I'll be respectful about, I'll be like, you should really stop spamming people because it, it is frustrating, you know? Yeah. So I had to, I had to get you back a little bit. You know, you're improving the health of the overall world's, uh, yeah.

[00:08:43] Spam trajectory somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're bringing balance to the force. It's like, have you seen those videos of those guys that talk to scam callers and they lead 'em on. Oh yeah, those are my favorite. Have you seen those too? They're trying to get them to like buy gift cards and they'll like actually buy them but then send them to themselves.

[00:09:07] Right, right, right. Like they're so close. Getting the money in for, right. It brings balance. It brings balance to the forest. Exactly. So Anthropic, the way that they, it said the way that they build Claude code is that people can just decide they want to build something, they don't need to get approval or something like that.

[00:09:27] I don't know how the process works, but they build it, they deploy it to the, whatever their, the version that they're dogfooding internally, whatever. It just gets deployed as like an option and then like if people use it, then it gets promoted to a full on feature. If people don't use it or if they complain about it, then you know, it downgrades it.

[00:09:49] They just auto deploy fucking whatever to, to people at all times, and they iterate so quickly. Like, I remember I'll, I'll see something happening in cloud. Like I can't even remember a good example of it. It was like something related to how it was referencing files or it was some very specific thing that like happened enough that I was like, that's annoying, but it's like, I'm not gonna go file a bug request.

[00:10:12] Like it's not that annoying. And then, then like the next day it would be fixed. And I was like, that's crazy. Like they just, they iterate so quickly. That's awesome. Have you tried out open AI CLI yet? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It looks pretty similar. Like it, they definitely took inspiration from Quad Co, but I haven't given it a shot yet.

[00:10:32] Mm-hmm. I've used it a little bit. It's supposed to be a lot better for longer running tasks. It's basically, it seems like it's sort of generally better asynchronous than synchronous. Claude is sort of better synchronous, but yeah, I've tried to use it a couple times in like. It doesn't have the same mode, I think for exactly the, that same reason.

[00:10:50] It doesn't have like a plan mode and then accept everything mode, which I'm like super used to. So it's like, I've tried a few times and a couple times it seemed like it was doing certain things better, but then I was like, ah, I'll just use cloud. It's like super. Yeah, I, I just have this Claude that, by the way, I didn't know about dash, dash continue until so earlier this week.

[00:11:12] So I was like, wait, what's dash? Dash continue if your laptop restarts or something and you lost the, the terminal window. So if you just type clo it starts a fresh chat. But if you Oh yeah, yeah. Hashtag continued. You can pick up where you left off got. Which has been super helpful. 'cause I just have this one that's like sitting in some context window where it knows about like how to get access to BigQuery and it's pretty awesome to just like go ask it a question whenever I have it.

[00:11:40] Yeah, I'll tell. Yeah, totally. I usually do the slash resume for that one. You can actually. Do it? Is that like after you, after you turn it on, you can go to resume and it does it give you a history?

[00:11:51] David: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sweet.

[00:11:53] Kalen: Yeah. And then, um, you're such a baby, I need to get, I need to up my game on this stuff.

[00:11:59] One, like little advanced sort of like little thing I saw in this one video, I tried it a couple times. I don't really do it that much, but like basically each clot, sometimes you're gonna get a clot that's dumber or smarter than another clot instance. Mm-hmm. And you know how you get a dumb one sometimes?

[00:12:16] Yeah. Well if you get a smart one and you fill up the context, you're, one of the things you can do is press escape twice and then that lets you paginate up through the chat history. Do you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And then you can go back to some earlier point in the conversation and have it do a different task.

[00:12:38] Because you know that this can branch off. Nice. Yeah. You can branch off because you know that this is a smart one, so it's better to use this one than a new instance. So interesting dude. It feels like the context window, like whatever it's called, where they compress it. Mm-hmm. It feels like that happens.

[00:12:56] Like the first time that happened, it was like, by the way, this is about to happen. And I was like, okay. But now it feels like it just happens and it's not that bad Lately. It's gotten better. It's gotten better. I noticed that if you do slash context, I don't know if you've done that before. It shows you all a little visual of the blocks of how much context you have used and available and what's used by different things.

[00:13:21] And I started noticing recently that there's a chunk at the end that's reserved for the auto compact buffer. And I think that is what improved it because the auto compact used to suck ass and everybody did everything they could to avoid it. But they added a bunch of, they dedicated a bunch of context to it and I think that's why it's better now.

[00:13:42] Mm. Is kind of wild. 'cause like I've let a couple roll, like normally I'd always exit outta that shit, but I just let a few of 'em roll on like a longer running task and I was just like, cool, whatever. Have you seen the, like there's tools that are coming out for context management. Have you seen any of those?

[00:14:02] Like con I think I've seen a few, but I still don't totally get it. Yeah, same. I need to like save some time to try this thing out 'cause I don't really understand it fully. Okay, so this is, and if there's any listeners back from the Magento days, this is a little trivia for, for the, uh, ma Stock podcast.

[00:14:21] They were a sponsor, one of the last sponsors of the podcast, they're called Turn two. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. Mm-hmm. It's such a funny name. We used to make fun of them, or I used to make fun of them, and then he'd be like, dude, it's like a sponsor. Like, I'd be like, turn two tables in a microphone.

[00:14:40] It like, sounds like the goofiest name ever. But the guy, dude, Dave John that worked there, or he had ownership, whatever. He's like, I met him one time in a conference and he was like, super cool. And then I just, I, I was tweeting with him a little bit and then I had a chat with him and he's like doing some advanced shit with ai, like in terms of parallelizing and, and I'm like, fuck, I have to, like, I have to start working on that, you know?

[00:15:04] Yeah. So I started cracking away at it a little bit. Oh yeah. Thinking of a new AI set. Well, no, just parallelizing my workflow like. If you can spin up a separate pr, a separate branch, a separate pr, and a separate instance of your app, isolated instance, then you can paralyze stuff so much. 'cause you can just have it crack away.

[00:15:28] But with gadget it's like, it's impossible to, it's not impossible. I started working on, you can create a separate environment. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna create 10 environments and then I'm gonna auto switch each ticket between an environment. Gotcha. And generate an environment for it that way. And at least I'd have up to 10 different parallel whatever, spinning the environment, like syncing it back up and down.

[00:15:48] Just, it was just not, the sync tool sucks it all. Everything's broken sync tool's. Okay. But anyways, so I gave up on that. But if I, if I was doing something on like Google Cloud, I could do it. It'd be fucking awesome. That does sound so cool. I just, I wish I had more use cases for that. Like, I know I don't just have like 10 tickets I need to work on.

[00:16:10] It's like always different stuff. So that would be Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you mean. But maybe I could have like different focused assistance that know certain things better than others that I could parallelize some stuff. I was thinking the other day, like I should probably just start a cloud code session in the same directory as my notes from obsidian.

[00:16:31] Mm-hmm. And like, just start asking a que like, I, I don't know why I haven't done that yet. Wait, wait, wait. In the same directory as which notes? I use obsidian for my notes. And so like every day gets a new note, right? And then there's like some organization and like linking structure and it's all marked down.

[00:16:47] Yeah, it's all marked down. So it would understand everything. Like I, I have to-dos that are in there that move from day to day if they didn't get them done. So like, I feel like I could just set up a cloud code instance that knows all that stuff and can make my notes better. Or like puts the files in the file.

[00:17:03] A markdown is in the file system. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And then I like, I also have granola running, so I could have it like pull the notes from granola and summarize them per day. Like there's so many cool things I could do. I know, dude, that's, I know, I know. That's the thing, dude. People that are maxing this shit out are like freaking getting ridiculous productivity gains is

[00:17:27] David: we live with an

[00:17:28] Kalen: interesting time.

[00:17:29] I know, man. And like that was something he said when I was talking to him, he was like, if people are looking for like a video, like people making videos on how to do AI coding or whatever, it's like anybody spending time on that, like you should be suspicious of what they're telling you because like this is the most exciting time ever to be building stuff.

[00:17:53] So anybody who's not just spending all of their time building stuff. Is probably nowhere near like the cutting edge, basically. Oh yeah. I watched a YouTube video the other day that was like, here are the cool new things and clogged 3.2 or whatever it was. Right. Maybe it was 1.2 or something, and like most of the video was just annoying self-referential.

[00:18:16] Like, watch my other video for this. Right, right, right. Maybe one minute out of like the 12 minutes of the video where like actually the new things, I feel like that's true because there really isn't a lot of content out there besides Yeah. What's being released directly by Yeah. Claude and open ai. Yeah, and it's funny because like I found myself having that same thought process where like part of my brain wanted to go, oh wait, no.

[00:18:41] I've seen videos where I've learned things or like I, I was assuming those videos were probably fairly useful, but once you think about it that way, you're like, oh shit. No, it's impossible. Yeah. I saw this tweet from DHH, he was basically talking about like, people always complain about AI slop, right?

[00:19:03] Mm-hmm. It's just like the fact that the world is full of human slop every which way you turn. So like it's a question of which LOP is the better slop, you know? Mm-hmm. Like humans send, like one of the slots is gonna get better. Like it is already getting way better. Exactly. Exactly. The other one is gonna get worse or stay the same, you know?

[00:19:30] Yeah. Someone from marketing today sent me a link to a tweet about Forever 20 one's, new product page, and they were saying that like the video on the PDP is ai and there was some discussion in the thread about like, is it actually ai? Like you, you kind of can't tell already. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, dude, and that was the other thing I was talking to.

[00:19:54] Somebody about, was that dude my friend? They were like making videos, like e-commerce videos with like fake influencer videos. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm talking about? And dynamically pulling products in. Right. Like from a catalog. And he showed me some of the videos. They look like completely real. And I was like, wait.

[00:20:16] But I was like, isn't that already happening right now? Like I've seen those videos. And he said that the higher end brands, you know, like the mom and pop type brands, not mom and pop, the household name brands

[00:20:30] David: mm-hmm.

[00:20:30] Kalen: In e-commerce are like not wanting to do that is because they think they're gonna get backlash.

[00:20:37] Yeah. From the public about AI versus whatever. So like he's literally pitching it to them and producing it and he's probably, it seems like he's probably gonna be the one to like when it first cracks that segment. Of the economy. It's like, that's what he's working on. I was like, that's cool, dude. It's like cutting edge.

[00:20:57] Yeah. It just like, especially when it's a product where the way that it looks is very important to its function. Like that. That's what it does, is it looks nice. Yeah. It's weird to make AI generated stuff with that, but if it's indistinguishable, then like that's a huge unlock. You just have to be able to prove the indistinguishable.

[00:21:19] Is it actually that size? Like how tall is the model in that AI gen? Does that match up to what this thing should actually be in terms of dimensions and then like is the color right? All that stuff? Yeah. Once that gets to a point where it's indistinguishable, then it's like, okay, yeah, why not? Yeah, and like another thing he's doing is just for funsies, he's making like a video series of like a Hallmark movie type vibe.

[00:21:46] Like girl from the city moves back home. Mm-hmm. Right. Like that type of vibe. And then it's gonna be called like Holiday Claude or something like that. Like the guy character is gonna do stuff that Claude does. Like you're absolutely right. Like in funny ways, like he's like, I'm compacting whatever. And he showed me one of the videos, like that's what you do when you go to the bathroom in this show is you.

[00:22:14] Exactly. It's exactly the type of thing you need AI to create something that dumb and that nerdy with like a very specific aesthetic. And he showed me the video, bro, it looks like a hallmark. I don't even know how to describe it, but there's just the way people's skin glows more in Hallmark movies.

[00:22:34] Mm-hmm. It looked exactly like that. And then, anyways, as I watched it, it was okay. It was okay. It wasn't like hysterical or any of that, but I could see was it Sora too? I don't know if he did it with SOA or his own models. I think he does some stuff with his own models too. Mm. But it might've just been SOA because he has been using SOA and he, he was about to hook me up with an invite.

[00:22:54] Do you have access to, I still don't have an invite and I'm jealous. I have, I have, bro. So this is the weirdest thing. He was about to hook me up with an invite code. He goes, cool. He gives me the code. I log in, I get in and I'm already in, and it tells me that I have invite codes. And I was like, wait a minute.

[00:23:09] What? Lemme check. I was like, wait, did it auto apply the code to me? Or something like that. And then it didn't, it wasn't the same code. And so I don't know how the heck that happened, but I still haven't even used it. I like. I did like one prompt. I haven't even looked at the, what it created. Ooh. It's telling me to create a username.

[00:23:28] So maybe I him in It might be in, dude, they might have let people in. I think I'm in, dude, it's pretty sick.

[00:23:35] David: Yeah. This is what I'm doing this weekend.

[00:23:41] Kalen: Hell yeah, dude. I don't need to clean up leaves or play with my children. I'm gonna generate AI videos, right? Oh yeah. A little more screen time. Just a little bit more. Just a little bit more. Just getting a little more of that screen time baby.

[00:24:02] Dude, that sucks. There was this, this is so funny. I'm like on scrolling on TikTok and then there's this guy. Talking about like a meetup in Austin, and I've gone to a couple meetups and I'm just like, I hate meetups. I hate the people at meetups. I hate all of it. I want to have nothing to do with you people.

[00:24:21] Why don't you like meetups? If you go to a conference and there's cool people there that you really like, like that's fun. But I feel like that's the exception, not the rule at like any random meetup. It's always some douchey guy that thinks he knows everything about every, I don't know. It just, I guess I just had, didn't like meet anybody that I thought was, yeah, maybe you didn't.

[00:24:45] Maybe you got unlucky with meetups. Yeah. Yeah. I probably just got unlucky, but yeah. Wait. But yeah, conferences are different. Yeah. You were talking about a meetup. Oh yeah. So I was, I saw this TikTok video that was said. There was a meetup in Austin. I was like, oh, this guy actually seems kind of cool. So I was kind of interested.

[00:25:02] So I'm like listening to it, something like that. And then I start, I look in the comments and this one guy, he goes, ah, I can't make it because my wife's getting getting a BBL on that day. Do you know what a, do you know what a BL is? I think so, yeah. Brazilian butt lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a surgery. And then I was like, wait.

[00:25:25] I was like, I literally cannot tell if they're joking 'cause it's like a tech meetup. Like it's, they're nerds. Like I couldn't tell if he was joking or if it's so normalized now. 'cause I've heard it's pretty normalized. It's not even a weird thing to say in the comment section about a meetup. Like, which of those two is it?

[00:25:50] Is this on TikTok or LinkedIn? Yeah,

[00:25:51] David: this is on TikTok. Okay. I feel like TikTok, TikTok

[00:25:56] Kalen: comes with like a certain level of sarcastic comments. Right. So maybe I, but I don't think it was, I really don't think it was. I think he was just being, I was like, either way, that now either way, I'm like, that's my kind of crowd, dude.

[00:26:13] Yeah. You know, like you, whether it's real or that was the type of joke you're making, I wanna hang out with these people. Yeah. So then the other thing I said, I was like super cringe. He was like, he just happened to mention, he was like, yeah, come out. We had the last one we did. We had a really good time.

[00:26:30] There's black people, white people, Asian people, Latinos. He said it in a like in like a chill way, but it just was, it felt like a funny thing to say. Like I get why they would say it. It's like, Hey, it's a diverse crowd. Yeah. But so then I commented, I was like, I will definitely gladly contribute to the number of whites attendance.

[00:26:52] Jesus. And then, which is like how, that's obviously feels offensive to say, but like, yeah. Why is that offensive? Like, yeah, I don't know. You just listed out the groups of like, I'm in this group. Like any other group could say that, I don't know. But then I deleted it because I was like, that was so, oh, did you?

[00:27:12] Stupid dude. Yeah. I feel like the way it is now is it's like good to acknowledge that we are different and like that's fine. Versus like pretending that everyone's the same, you know? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. But yeah, sounds like you might have your new crowd that you're gonna be hanging that way.

[00:27:32] Yeah, dude. So I, I might need to get out to that. The other thing on the topic of meetups, I was thinking about this, is that I think that we need to make an official petition for hunky bill for there to be like an official meet and greet of hunky bill

[00:27:51] David: at, at Shopify editions. And is that what you're down?

[00:27:55] Who's in charge of addition planning? Yes. That's

[00:28:02] Kalen: it, dude. That's it. I think we need to submit a formula request. First of all, I don't think most people think he's real. I think most people think he's a bot. Like he's the first, he's literally the first of the advanced bots. But I met him in person. If I hadn't met him in person, I would know a hundred percent for sure that he was an advanced AI dude.

[00:28:25] You met him. When did you meet him? I met him the first year. And see, this is what I'm talking about, the way you just said that. 'cause I've had people say the same thing to me. Like, wait, you actually, they were like excited about it. I'm like, yeah, he's a mythical creature. He's a mythical creature dude.

[00:28:41] He's replied to 75,000 forms threads over the past, like since day one. Since day one. Dude, like we need to have an official event for him. Dude, we need to put some respect on his name. If Shopify doesn't do it, like SDA somehow could have some sort of like hunky bill meetup or something. Could, I don't know.

[00:29:05] No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I just right there. I just realized the exact perfect name for it. Ready? Hunky bill Appreciation day. There you go. I think that we should denote to this today's date, whatever, I don't actually know what today's date is. Off top, we should denote this as hunky bill appreciation day from this day forward.

[00:29:30] Okay, so every morning, every single morning we do our daily standup. The last thing we do is we go to national calendar.com. I think that's the thing, and we see what the national days are. There's always like at least five, and some of them kind of feel a little corporate, right? What I'm thinking is there's gotta be some way to email this website and be like, Hey.

[00:29:54] How much is it gonna cost to make day? What's it gonna cost? We got money, dude. We both. We a number. We got money. Dude. We need to make this happen. If we need to grease some palms, dude, we've been in the industry long enough, we could pull some outta the 401k if we need to. There you go. This needs to happen.

[00:30:08] I will remortgage my house to make hunky bill day. This needs to happen. I mean, if we need to drop 30 bucks to grease somebody's palms. I got that kind of where you're now I got that. I got that kind of money in my couch. Christians literally like that's not even, that's not any listeners would like to support creating a hunky national bill, national Hunky Bill National Day.

[00:30:35] Please open your office, listener at home. Let me tell you about all the exciting facets of supporting hunky bill appreciation day. Not only will you get a commemorative pin, but you will also get one additional troll tweet from Hunky Bell himself. Per year. Oh, like a, on a date to be determined. It's like a, uh, Patreon style thing.

[00:31:00] Yeah. Yeah. We're doing shirts, dude. We're not screwing around with this. So I need somebody to put me in touch. If I need to hunt down Harley, I'll start tagging him. I'll tag him every day of the week. I feel like he'd be into it, you know what I mean? I'll write in a letter. I'll write a snail mail letter in to the offices.

[00:31:20] I'll show up on Toronto Builder to Sunbelt. Dude, I'll just show up. I'll just show up on Toronto Builder Sunday with a sign with, with a sign Want hunky bill that says, put some respect on hunky bill's name. Right. I'll walk you there, dude. That's all, that's all the science says. So no one really

[00:31:41] David: knows

[00:31:42] Kalen: like what the, what you're actually asking.

[00:31:46] I'll have a t-shirt on with this avatar on. And I'll make everybody very uncomfortable until I get a meeting. Okay. Until I get a sit down with somebody that can appreciate hunker strike head, Shopify headquarters. Yeah. We'll have people on the inside ready to strike if we need to pull that trigger. You know?

[00:32:09] Harsh deeps down for the cause, dude. Oh yeah, for sure. He doesn't need money anyways, dude. He's in there, you know. Yeah. He's just having a good time. Ah, I wish I didn't need money, dude. I really do. I really wish I didn't have to work anymore, man. Working sucks. You know what, as I, I feel like that sometimes, but then I'm like, at least I don't wake up and the freezing snow out in the woods and my task for the day is to, I know.

[00:32:35] Get more wood so I don't die. I know, I know. I know, dude. I know. I should be grateful, man. What the hell is my problem? Yeah. Come on. Being a bitch. All right. So I went over the cringe dev me at BBL line item.

[00:32:54] Okay. Reading code. I don't know if you're feeling this way or I don't know, we already talked, did we already talk about this? How like you spend a lot more time reading code than writing code with Todd? Yeah. And how I keep thinking about this man, like it's a, 'cause I literally remember always like hearing the smartest developers would be like, you have to read code and Yep.

[00:33:17] I'd always be like, I believed that, but I was like, I'm not that disciplined. Like I, it's just never gonna happen. Like for me, reading code is the bare minimum on some new code base that I have to live with to just get by. Like I'm not reading it just for kicks, just to like discover new patterns or whatever.

[00:33:38] Yeah. I was just never like that. Like you probably knew some people that were like that. Like probably David Alger was that type of dude. Yeah, he was like super smart. And I was like, I'm never gonna be that smart. But it's true, like the only way that you can get better at this stuff is just being in it longer.

[00:33:56] And I hated that 'cause I was like new to it when I was first starting out. And it just was like one of those things, like this is not as fast as, yeah, I want it to be, but now I feel like I could read it a lot faster, understand it a lot more. And I'm at the point where I kind of like skim it, which is bad.

[00:34:14] Yep. But I don't, it's been, I don't think so. I don't think so, man. I saw somebody say this recently and it really resonated. It was like you have to develop an intuition of how closely to read any given piece of code you're gonna skim, you know, at a bare minimum. But if it's doing a, a variable, like a perfect example, if it's doing a variable rename across 45 files, you're not gonna actually read every line.

[00:34:42] That that touch because it's irrelevant. Or you can tell it's smelly though. Like that's, that's the one thing, like if the code is not Easy's to understand quickly that's that, then there's probably something wrong. That's exactly what I find myself catching and I'm like, dude, I'm getting better at catching that.

[00:34:59] Uh, which is, it's just a higher level skill. It always has been. And I always knew that. I just didn't really do it as much back in the day. I think it's literally just a better skill. It's a higher value skill. I feel like at some point I switched over and I enjoyed reading code to the point where like, uh, I think it was last week, BUN released their new version and I went and I looked at the PR 'cause I was interested.

[00:35:26] Are you serious? Yeah. The shit was, I didn't know you were like that it, but the, I gotta put some speck on your name. I, I didn't end up reading a lot of the code, just like straight, what I was reading is. Their PR system is super cool. Like when you create a PR in the button repository, there's this AI that goes in and analyzes all these different things and it makes suggestions.

[00:35:52] And so their PR review is like, they go in and they respond to the bot. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They like talk to the bot about, this is a bad suggestion, don't suggest things like this anymore. Or they're like, yeah, this is good. And then like after they go through a round, they're like, okay, recheck it again. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:10] They're like super and like, you know, bud goes super fast that that must be part of it is like this huge PR review situation. I need to get that to you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whenever you, because then it's not even you reading code, it's the AI is reading the code and then you're reading its suggestions, which like is another level up I feel.

[00:36:31] Right. Right, right, right, right, right. I mean, I think it's harder actually, because especially if you're, depends on what speed you're going at. Like if you're just taking your time gingerly, you know, reading like eight screens of code and spending a half hour on it, like, okay. But if you're trying to get through that same thing in two minutes and you know which things need to be tested to verify it, and you have to test it to verify it anyways and can quickly identify are there code smells here in the file names even, and things like that, then that's a lot more valuable doing that in two minutes.

[00:37:11] And it's a lot harder too, to do that in two minutes, to know where to spend your time, spend it in the right place, decide which way to take it. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Segue into our next segment. The next segment in the show. By the way, do you have a checklist or what you got? Any, any line items?

[00:37:33] Uh, check. One thing I wanted to ask you about is I saw you clowning, you took a screenshot of my favorite. Kaylin tweets sometimes are the ones where you take a screenshot of what you did on LinkedIn. Bro, you never like my tweets like you actually do genuinely like my tweets. You just don't like them. I do.

[00:37:55] I should just start liking every one of them. That's like a super niche. Like, like anyone who likes that about me, they like the core of who I am. You know, this one was like, you made fun of someone for not having a job.

[00:38:10] David: So they,

[00:38:12] Kalen: they

[00:38:12] David: said,

[00:38:12] Kalen: wait, wait,

[00:38:13] David: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[00:38:19] Kalen: Let's hold on. Let's get the backstory, bro. Let's get the backstory. He started that shit first. I put some shit out that I genuinely thought was interesting, talking about AI and shit. Talking about my workflows. You know what I mean? Genuinely. Yeah. And then he goes, whoa, this looks like it was written by chat, GPT are you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:38:42] And then I see the fucking green badge on this fucking heads, and I'm like, man, fuck you dude. You, you didn't have

[00:38:50] David: a job. Dumbass fucking greened badge on LinkedIn. Fuck the fuck up. So that, so that, so actually the way I wrote it on LinkedIn

[00:39:02] Kalen: was a, a lot

[00:39:02] David: nicer than that. It was a little, it was a little, yeah.

[00:39:10] Kalen: Wow. So that was situations you find yourself in? Yes.

[00:39:18] David: I used to, like, I had

[00:39:19] Kalen: this phase where I kept like getting into little arguments and scuffles at like pickleball, scuff, like not scuffles, but I don't know, little dust ups. And then like I had a friend and uh, I was like, man. He must think this is so retarded. Like he must think this is so dumb. 'cause he is like from Texas, you know, he is like a country guy.

[00:39:42] And then I, I asked him one, I don't know what I said. He's like, nah man. I think it's hilarious. Yeah.

[00:39:54] Damn. It makes life interesting. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to talk about that a little bit 'cause I thought it was hilarious. Okay. Nice. Thanks for that. Thanks for that contribution. Yeah, you, you're welcome to the, uh, Shopify technical content. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I do have a Shopify thing though.

[00:40:17] We gotta talk about the update to the, I mean, we talked about it a little bit, the tech debt, but the tech debt, right, that was cleaned up was we have 2048 variants available now in Shopify, which. I'm not gonna need that, but okay. What I am excited about, like maybe start, you're like, I'm glad I'm not gonna, you're like, I'm glad I'm not gonna need that, because that sounds like a shit load of work.

[00:40:43] Yeah. I don't wanna, that's about, so what I'm hopeful for because of this is maybe because people are touching Toby's old code around variants, we'll start to see more variant functionality. Oh, like that's Yeah. Publish state. Give me, publish state on variants. Yeah. I'm so worried about CPS seeing all of my variants that are not sold anymore.

[00:41:10] We're so ready. Lemme do something about it. I'm ready. We're super, we're super ready for it. Put me in the beta. I'll test it out. No, I think you're a hundred percent right, because I think it was, that was literally what that tweet thread was where Toby said, he was like, it's, they're definitely focusing on this area of the product right now.

[00:41:28] Heck yeah, I think that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. The other thing I was thinking about is like, it's kind of crazy 'cause I, the, one of the main projects I'm working on, it's kind of this like, growing piece of software and we just added a decent amount to it and it's like, it's the first thing that I wrote not by hand, like first like non-trivial thing that, you know, it's like you work with it like day in and day out.

[00:41:53] I don't know if it's the first one, but it, like, it's the one that would probably have the most technical debt without Claude. And so it's weird man, because I, because when you write software, there's a certain relationship you have with that code because you wrote it, you think about it differently. I don't know, man.

[00:42:15] There's something different. Like you kind know, you know where all the corners are and stuff like that, but yes, but also you don't know where all the corners are all the time because as the software grows, the last time you looked at this file was six months ago, but you add something up here to line a hundred and you fix your problem.

[00:42:37] So you, at least for me personally, over time, I would actually know like there was more and more shit that just was weird. You know what I mean? You feel like it gets away from you a little bit. Yes, that's exactly it. It gets away from me and like now, like that's not happening, but so it's like the code is better and I know it better, and I'm able to know it better because.

[00:43:06] The quality's better. So the things are more intuitive, they're more cohesive, it's better overall. And I know it better and I'm more effective at using it, but it still feels like it's kind of somehow distant from me. It's a very strange feeling. No, I know what you mean. 'cause like most of the time you're not in there editing it, you're talking to Claude about how you want the edits to be.

[00:43:30] Yeah, exactly. And so like, you probably don't, but it's like there's probably like historically there's probably muscle memory from like how you type out certain things. Yes. And you're not getting any of that 'cause your muscle memory is in English. Exactly. Versus the code. I think it basically imprints on your memory better.

[00:43:50] It imprints a certain aspect of the, of it on your memory. Like mm-hmm. Better. Even though I wouldn't necessarily say I have a better imprint for it over overall, but like, I dunno. It is super weird, man. It's very strange. It's a very strange like feeling. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a, like some sort, it's like I made it but I didn't make it.

[00:44:16] Yeah. Like throughout history with technological advances, what would be something similar like, that's a good question. Maybe, I guess maybe the way we treat cars now, like people probably knew a lot more about cars back in the day. Right now they're just kind of like a, like it's a little bit more of a black box.

[00:44:36] Like you, you know, it works, but you weren't super into making it work. Right? I dunno. But I feel like the difference is that if you work on cars, which is what we do, then you would have to be like super involved with cars. But just. Involved in a different sense or something like that. Mm-hmm. One thing that that's always interesting to me about Star Wars is how like they'll go and they'll like, they can go out to a yard that had like an old ship and they'll find components and they're like, oh, this is the component I needed, and then they can just like slot it into their other thing.

[00:45:15] There's no way that would be the case with the technology that we have now. So like in Star Wars, did they somehow standardize different parts and now everyone just knows what all those different parts are? Hmm. I have no idea.

[00:45:37] David: Sorry about that. Just wanted to throw that in there.

[00:45:40] Kalen: That's so funny,

[00:45:44] dude. Looks like we're doing pretty good on time. I noticed that I, I thought Shopify was gonna be the first to be in chat, GBT, but I noticed Etsy actually is the first, they're like, yeah, fully operational. I was like, why would they beat Shopify? That makes no sense. Even like, we're supposed to be smarter than them, you know?

[00:46:04] But, um, somebody suggested they were like, well, Shopify probably has all sorts of permission stuff to deal with, how to enable it for different merchants or whatever. Whereas Etsy, they are the merchant of record, so they can just dump all day. Yeah, that's my hope. Like I, I hope the reason why it's delayed is because they wanna make sure that they give controls to merchants to be able to like at least impact it some somehow.

[00:46:31] And so I'm okay with them delaying it because I don't have any of those tools yet, you know? Yeah. But it's like, I don't know. That seems like a weird excuse because even if all they did was just make it a toggle in the account and then true. I mean, is it really that complicate? I mean, I'm sure over time it will get a lot more complicated to do permissions, but I feel like you could just do that at a setting field.

[00:46:59] I mean, maybe it's less about permissions and more about making sure that they have other, like the options are ready for merchants and like, I dunno, maybe it's something to do with variance, maybe me complaining about it on Twitter. Caused them to delay it so that they could give me variant controls.

[00:47:16] Bro, you keep moving mountains out there on Twitter, man. You're doing, I try. You're doing God's work, moving things forward. Mm-hmm. Dude, I saw the liquid guy, Ben something. You know what I'm talking about the, yep,

[00:47:28] David: yep. What's his

[00:47:29] Kalen: name? Ben Benal.

[00:47:33] David: Yeah. Stall or something like that.

[00:47:35] Kalen: Forget who Somebody was like working on a project with Liquid and they were saying they did a whole, oh, they did a, they moved a whole bunch of stuff from liquid to JavaScript because, oh, in a theme?

[00:47:45] In a theme block in something like that. Theme extent, app extension, I don't remember, but they moved a bunch of stuff from liquid to JavaScript and then he like replied to it and was like, oh yeah, no, you shouldn't do that. We want you doing stuff in, in that shouldn't be getting offloaded to JavaScript.

[00:48:00] So he like literally offered to jump on a phone call to like help him, like change it or figure it out or whatever. I was like, dude, he has so much of that like. Give a shit quality to him. Yeah. About like, yeah, he's cool. Yeah. He reached out to me about meeting up one time and we couldn't make it work on on times, but Oh, nice.

[00:48:21] He's like, he's always like offering to help people. It's pretty cool. Yeah, I don't, I've never met him. All I seem to remember is I remember like replying to a couple of his tweets and he didn't reply, so then I was like, ah, fuck this guy. Like whatever. And then everybody's always talking about how cool he is and like I recognize, obviously he's a very good product manager, but everybody's always talking about how cool he is and I'm like, whatever, dude.

[00:48:48] Maybe if I meet him, reply. Yeah. It doesn't fucking reply fucking three times in a row. Who does that dude? Yeah. Some kind of thoughts reserved. Yeah. Wait, what? Reserved? You're like reserving your thoughts for meeting 'em in real? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll, we will reserve, we'll reserve it. It is funny though, how sometimes you can have a sense of someone's personality in certain ways, and then you meet 'em in person and you're like, I knew it.

[00:49:16] I could tell from those little signals. And then other times, you're completely off. Other times you, they're completely different than who you thought they were on Twitter. Right? Yeah. I see. You know what I'm talking about. I haven't met a lot of people that I've seen on Twitter though, so I, I don't know.

[00:49:35] I don't, I feel like I don't have a, a good enough set of data. Right. Okay. So for you though, you are exactly who I thought you were though. I feel like the first time we met was actually in person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hackathon, right? Yeah. Which is, yeah. Yeah. Isn't that cool how that happens and somebody's just exactly who you thought they were and Yeah.

[00:49:57] That's kind of a weird phenomenon. I feel like I'm a like super introverted person in real life, so I just don't talk to people by default in person. Right, right, right, right, right. Good times, man. What do you got going on this weekend? It's funny 'cause I listed back to the last episode and we see, like, ask each other about the weekends and it was like, it was kind of cool.

[00:50:22] It was kind of like, maybe that should be like our little closing, uh, thing. Yeah. To, to close. It's

[00:50:29] David: super cheesy, but Nah, it's,

[00:50:32] Kalen: it makes it feel like a Friday thing. Let's see, this weekend my little bros having his fall, yearly fall party at his house, so we're gonna go over there and he puts like a, that's good.

[00:50:44] He puts like corn kernels in this big cow. Tub thing and the kids all playing it and the the fire and stuff. So we're gonna be doing that. Dude, you have a, he has a yearly fall party. Who does that? I know he's a, that's a chill as fuck. He's a firefighter. So like all the, all the other firefighters, he's a firefighter.

[00:51:03] Yeah. Whoa, this sounds chill as

[00:51:07] David: fuck.

[00:51:08] Kalen: So you feel super safe with the fire being there, you know all the firefighters around. Right. Going to eat some chili dogs probably. Shit. Then on, on Sunday I got a, oh, you know what I have to do on Sunday? My garage door has been broken for like weeks. Nice. I bought a new opener, but I have to put it all together.

[00:51:29] That's probably what dude, this weekend. Dang it, dude. My garage stopped working. And by the way, I, I'm all in my garage all day. Right. And then I go in and out through the garage door. Multiple times a day and it broke. So then I was doing it manually, but the chain was broken. So it was like the full weight mm-hmm.

[00:51:48] Of the garage door. Wait, your spring was broken? Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. So have you, you've felt it right? Like when it's the full Oh yeah. I've had it broken. I've had a broken spring before. Yeah. Those things are scary. Yeah, dude. So I'm doing that for like, I don't know, man. A month, month and a half. I looked up, I'm glad I alone.

[00:52:09] I looked up some videos on it. I was like, I tried to figure it out. It wasn't working the way I thought it was. And then I ended up being right because all the troubleshooting videos I saw didn't point out to look for the thing that. It ended up being, but anyways, so then I was just like, I'm gonna just pay to get this fixed dude.

[00:52:30] Or I think my wife suggested it and I was like, fine, just do it. And, 'cause she'll do that type of stuff. She'll set up the visit, she'll make sure she's here when they get there, whatever. Mm-hmm. Did I just pay like 600 bucks for it? I was like, fuck it dude. She stuck on it. Yeah, it's expensive, but those springs are scary.

[00:52:48] Was it the spring that was broken? Yeah. Yeah. Those like have so much tension. I will probably pay, like if the spring breaks, I'm gonna pay someone to help me with that 'cause Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. I don't want to die and like that. That feels like one of those things that will kill you. But if it's like the garage door opener, like then I can fix the chain and all that stuff, but mm-hmm The spring, like I, I tried putting in a spring on my own once and I was like, it's scary 'cause there's so much tension in that thing.

[00:53:19] Yeah. He starts to learn your limits. Yeah, well I have ex, I have some exciting news. This one dad in the neighborhood who I've seen, like at the pool, saw him at the park. He was like pretty chill. Like, this guy's cool man. We're laugh, like having laughs. He has a son, I have a son. And then, uh, he's like, yeah, he is like, you should come out to the ranch.

[00:53:40] And I was like, what? You have a ranch that's chill, its book. And then he is like, uh, so he is like, come out, you can come over this weekend. He's just gonna be hanging out. He has like, I don't know, a hundred acres he inherited or something like that.

[00:53:55] David: Oh. And he's like,

[00:53:56] Kalen: I don't even know why he lives in our neighborhood.

[00:53:58] What's that? You gotta ride four wheelers and stuff. I mean, he'll probably get 'em eventually. I don't know. I don't know what he has out there right now, but he, I don't know what he's gonna do with it, but he said he is turning some of it into commercial. He already sold some of it to a hospital. Oh, wow.

[00:54:11] He's gonna put some commercial pads in and then, uh, I guess he's trying to figure out like what to do with it. So I was like, damn, dude. A friend with a freaking ranch. Yeah. I need a friend with a boat out there. I need a friend with a boat, friend with a ranch. Honestly, he probably has a boat, or his family probably does.

[00:54:29] He seems like pretty rich dude, but it's a little, ah, man. I, I feel Do you ever feel awkward around people that are like rich, like rich a lot richer than you? Yeah, kind of. Yeah, I do too. It was weird, like when I realized it, I was like, oh, yeah, and then I felt myself getting like feeling insecure or something, like smaller.

[00:54:51] I'm like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, you don't have to feel that way. Like, he's a cool guy. But then, you know, and then you would interpret the smallest little facial expression. Like, oh yeah, this guy, right, he thinks he's better than me. Or, you know what I mean? Where I know, like, I really believe at the end of the day, it all comes down to confidence.

[00:55:10] If you don't have confidence and other people do, like they're, you know, they're gonna be less interested in talking to you and there's a, you know what I mean? Like, there's a line between like having, being humble and like being a total asshole or whatever, but, mm-hmm. Um, I kind of get it. I think like I, or if you're around somebody who's like super attractive or whatever, like you might just feel insecure and then just.

[00:55:34] Just be like, oh yeah, they're an asshole. Like, you know, or they're just, yeah, totally this big tough guy who thinks he runs the world or whatever, where in reality he might have just been super chill. But you know, you just kind of, and you didn't feel any of that in the conversations with him until you realized, until I started thinking about exactly.

[00:55:54] As a matter of fact, I remember distinctly thinking, this guy reminds me exactly as me. 'cause he grew up as like a skater kid. And I felt like we were the same type of person, same class, same social class. Like I was like, this guy reminds me of myself way too much, and then all of a sudden outta nowhere it, yeah.

[00:56:15] Yeah, you're exactly right. Weird how that works, dude. Yeah, it's super weird. Well, it's, yeah, it's just, you know, it's just confidence, I guess, man, that's the move for 2025 going into 2026. Working on my confidence, working on, IM improving my self-confidence levels. Oh, that's great. I'm gonna join you on that.

[00:56:38] Let's support each other. Kaylyn? Yeah, let's start self confidence start. Let's start an online challenge and start a group. Let's make it a thing, you know, let's come up with a good name for it. Start doing social challenges. Oh, that's where stuff you lost me. I'm not doing any social challenges.

[00:57:01] David: I'll say that.

[00:57:02] Kalen: I'll read books, I'll watch YouTube videos. You ever see where they're like not, you ever see where they'll like go into a coffee shop and ask for a 10% discount just because Yeah. You see those? Yeah. I'm never doing that. Yeah. I, when I watch those, I think I'm a half percent. I'm like, I'm be tip you so much money if you like me.

[00:57:27] Yeah. Yeah. I have thought to myself like, that would probably be good to do. Like that would probably be a, a healthy challenge to take on. I understand the premise of the challenge, but there's probably different ways to do it. Yeah. But then I'm also like, oh my God, that guy is such a douche bag to actually do that and then.

[00:57:48] Yeah, exactly. Especially when they record it and they make content because then you're putting them into a weird position and they're like just trying to sell you a coffee and like, yeah, what do you want me to do now, dude? Yeah. I think if you do it once in your private life, it's probably good, but I think if you do it all the time and make videos about it and make it like a whole mental practice, it's almost like you're sort of micro taking advantage of pe.

[00:58:13] I don't know. It's very, yeah, you are. You're doing it for cloud. It's like you might as well, like instead of doing it at the coffee shop, do it when the people who come around your neighborhood and spray for bugs, like do it to that guy. Yeah. Wait, do what to them? Ask them for a discount. Oh, right, right number.

[00:58:34] And just be like, uh, how about 10% off? Right. It would be the same effect. Right. Right, right. And then you just keep asking for more discounts. Yeah. Every time they come by. No. Like, they come by and they go, uh, sir, we like to talk to you about this, uh, you know, bug spraying package. You know, we have three packages.

[00:58:55] And then you're like, okay, I like the middle package sounds good, but could I get a 10% discount, right? Mm-hmm. And then they go, uh, okay, yeah, even 10%. And then you're like, okay, all right. But could I get like 15% that would, yeah, that would be the challenge. And then you just like go back and forth for like, so then you're just trying to get into a weird situation.

[00:59:19] Yeah, like a full hour. You just go back and forth for like a full hour and then you go, sorry man, I just enjoy messing with people. I gotta eat dinner right now.

[00:59:27] David: Yeah.

[00:59:28] Kalen: I'm not buying your stuff. Sorry.

[00:59:33] Exactly. All right, man. Let's get the hell outta here, dude. How we doing? Right on. It says, it says it stopped recording, so I gotta hit refresh, I guess. Mine still says recording, so I think we're good. Yeah, it's probably fine.