[00:00:00] Kalen Jordan: Gil posted it and he's like, I'm gonna start a SaaS app with, I'm gonna get my cloud pewter to do a SaaS app and get it to 10 KMRR. And I was like, fucking Gil again. He's got great, he's at it again. He's added again. He's doing all, and he found the loophole. 'cause you can't, like if you work at Shopify, you can't do an app.

[00:00:21] But I thought he meant it literally. And I'm like replying to him. I'm like, wait, so how are you gonna, like, are you gonna set up an email address for your thing? And he's like. No, I don't think that would be. And I was like, but how are you gonna, and I, he was, I think he was joking. But,

[00:00:36] David: but you're gonna actually do it.

[00:00:37] Let's get it. Get the Mac money. Set it up in the corner.

[00:00:41] Kalen Jordan: Let's do it, man. I gotta get my money right David. I need fucking money. I want, I want that to MR it needs to make at least

[00:00:49] David: $2,000 a month. To pay for itself. Ah, I don't

[00:00:52] Kalen Jordan: want that MRR back, dude. I miss it.

[00:00:57] God.

[00:01:45] Kalen Jordan: dude, I'm kind of obsessed with wanting to visit like little small towns. 'cause like, we live in this kind of like, cute little small town, but it's

[00:01:52] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:52] Kalen Jordan: know, we live here, so you kind of get bored of it. But I'm like, I want to like see other cool little, , small town squares.

[00:01:59] Like, I'm always trying to find, places

[00:02:01] David: Yeah. This is a nice one. , It's right next to Lake Michigan, so there's a bunch of sand dunes and yesterday we went on a, like a dune buggy ride. Like you can fit.

[00:02:13] Kalen Jordan: awesome

[00:02:14] David: Yeah. It's a driver that works there and then they can fit like 14 people in this crazy, like, custom trucks that they have.

[00:02:22] And it goes way faster than you expect. , It's a ton of fun.

[00:02:26] Kalen Jordan: that is fantastic. That's so cool, man. How long have you been on, uh, lo

[00:02:35] David: So first we went to Chicago. We drove to Chicago last Friday.

[00:02:40] Tried to find some lab booboos. Couldn't find any in the whole town. Uh,

[00:02:46] Kalen Jordan: Booboos?

[00:02:48] David: you don't know what labu boos are. Come on.

[00:02:50] Kalen Jordan: You just assume? Wait. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I think I've seen people tweeting about this.

[00:02:55] David: You definitely have.

[00:02:57] Kalen Jordan: Oh my

[00:02:57] David: They're like the, the little monster key chain kind of things.

[00:03:02] Kalen Jordan: Oh, okay. Gotcha.

[00:03:03] David: found none, but we stayed in a nice hotel and that was fun for the kids. And then, uh, so we were there for like one full day, and then the next day we drove up to Michigan. So we've been here for, this is day number seven,

[00:03:18] Kalen Jordan: Hell yeah, dude.

[00:03:19] David: heading back tomorrow.

[00:03:21] Kalen Jordan: heading back tomorrow. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Can't stay on vacation forever.

[00:03:28] David: Definitely not. There are like the same number of kids as there are adults, so, and it's like, there's like 36 people. So it's about time. About time to head on, back.

[00:03:41] Kalen Jordan: Oh, okay. You're ready to introvert A little bit.

[00:03:46] David: Little bit.

[00:03:48] Kalen Jordan: Nice. Um,

[00:03:51] David: What have you been up to?

[00:03:53] Kalen Jordan: Oh dude. It's been a busy week. So I broke my hand on my knuckle, uh, like a

[00:04:02] David: that seems like a big deal.

[00:04:04] Kalen Jordan: Well, it, it's quite a bit better already. Like the first day, you know, I had this big sling on which bit looked like a cast 'cause it just kind of covered my hole down to my, , almost down my elbow. I mean, I can barely hit like a couple keys, you know, when I'm typing.

[00:04:20] David: Oh no.

[00:04:21] Kalen Jordan: now actually when I went to the hand specialist, he said, no, we don't use those anymore. And he literally put, they put these two Velcro straps, they're called buddy loops, and it just attaches like the one finger that's broken to the, another finger,

[00:04:37] David: Hmm.

[00:04:37] Kalen Jordan: gives it like, just the right amount of support. and it's just so much easier.

[00:04:43] David: type it all with that thing on?

[00:04:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah, so I can type now, like I can do little terminal commands. Like the first couple days I was like, I cannot even like, doing a get, commit, get branch, get checkout, branch, get push, you know, let alone, like if you had to revert a commit would take me like way too long.

[00:05:03] So then I'm doing like voice commands to do, get commands, which kind of worked like max native voice commands, but they're a little slow. They don't always work like a couple of times of like get branch and it didn't do it. I'm like, get branch and I'm like yelling at it. And so it's a little glitchy.

[00:05:25] And so I'm not doing that anymore for , commands and stuff like that. , But yeah, like the, the first day or two I was thinking like, shit, it might be like this for two months or something. it was like one of those things you always were like, I think we've even talked about this before, like disability insurance and stuff, which I

[00:05:42] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:42] Kalen Jordan: I, I sort of don't believe in either.

[00:05:44] Like I feel like they'd find a way to screw you even if you had it.

[00:05:47] David: Yeah.

[00:05:47] Well, your hand still kind of works, so

[00:05:50] Kalen Jordan: yeah. I

[00:05:50] David: outta here.

[00:05:51] Kalen Jordan: could be a million times worse, but like, it gave me a little glimpse of like, well, what if you couldn't, you know, really couldn't use your hands for like six months or a year or something like that. So,, I was like catastrophizing the whole thing. But, that's like something that's probably one of my bigger fears, like in the back of my head. Like, if, if you know, something were to happen. So it was cool to like, to go, okay, let me take the time to get the stupid voice text thing working. And then I was just like, kind of blown away by like how much more efficient it is. I've been really, really enjoying it. 'cause like I'd seen a couple people mention, like, I think I saw Alex, the, Desi dude, , mention it and I was like, I gotta try that out. And I'd seen a couple people mention that, especially like working with like Claude code, that it's really fast to use voice. when I finally started doing it, I was like, oh man, this is so good. 'cause like. I don't know, you just end up giving more context. like, you know, if I'm typing out a prompt, I might just, 'cause sometimes you can get away with a short prompt, so then you kind of just do something short without, and you kind of know it's better to do more context, but you're like, I think this will work.

[00:07:07] And then, , it doesn't work, so you write another short thing versus like, just giving like a nice little explanation in, voice so that

[00:07:15] David: Right.

[00:07:15] Kalen Jordan: kind of a beefier paragraph. And it like you know, it takes like very little effort to like, say things, even if you're like, you type all the time, you're comfortable typing, you type fast. It's still, there's like some cognitive overhead to it, you don't quite think about until you kind of switch over to voice. So anyway, it's been, kind of cool man. It think I'm gonna

[00:07:38] David: That's interesting. , So you, said that you tried like Max built in voice command thing, but now you're using something else. What's the difference or what did it correct?

[00:07:49] Kalen Jordan: So it's called Whisper Flow, and it's a little app that I think it uses open AI's whisper model, under the hood.

[00:07:57] David: Hmm.

[00:07:57] Kalen Jordan: I think it's probably just a, a better model than whatever Apple is using. \ And then like Max, \ native feature has, like, can put it into command mode where it doesn't dictate what you type it, it only listens for like specific commands, like, you know,

[00:08:15] David: Oh, okay.

[00:08:15] Kalen Jordan: commands to open windows or whatever. but then when it's in dictation mode it starts typing right as you talk. The whisper flow, have a little shortcut, like you use the function key and anytime you press the function key, it just pops a little boop, and then you start typing and then you let go of it, and then it, enters it in. . And yeah, it just has better, like it has less glitchiness in the text it generates and it also will do cool stuff. Like a lot of times when you're talking, you kind of correct yourself. Like you might start out the sentence

[00:08:50] David: Hmm.

[00:08:50] Kalen Jordan: one thing and then say, oh no, but I mean this. And then it'll actually like generate the text cleanly, like with the correction removed.

[00:09:00] Like it'll just sort of magically fix some stuff like that. ,

[00:09:03] David: Nice. So the, major difference might be that the Mac built in thing is like trying to do it locally, but whisper flow is sending it up and doing some real. AI stuff.

[00:09:16] Kalen Jordan: actually I think when I set it up, I think it is actually doing it locally, although I don't quite understand exactly how that would work, I believe it does. Run locally. Um,

[00:09:34] David: Do you have to click into the cloud code dialogue box, and then you type the function key and then start talking and then you hit the enter key? Or does it know to like hit enter at the end?

[00:09:45] Kalen Jordan: no. So that's one of the things I would absolutely love because , you let go of the function key. It types the text, and then you have to hit enter. almost every single time without fail, you want it to auto, you don't want to have to hit the enter key. Like

[00:09:59] David: Gotcha.

[00:10:00] Kalen Jordan: there's all these little optimizations you start thinking

[00:10:03] David: Yeah.

[00:10:04] Kalen Jordan: of get used to just doing things a little faster and then you just want things to go faster and faster. , So

[00:10:09] David: That's interesting.

[00:10:10] Kalen Jordan: yeah, that would be a nice little, feature.

[00:10:13] David: I have to try it out. I feel like I'm worse at thinking when I'm talking, so maybe that's a

[00:10:20] Kalen Jordan: I do know what you mean. And at first, one of my hesitations was like a lot of times when I get going in the morning, dude, I don't even open my mouth sometimes for like five hours. Like,

[00:10:33] David: Yeah.

[00:10:33] Kalen Jordan: know what I mean? And then like the first time, 'cause like I get up, you know, before my wife or kids or whatever, you know, and then I go start working right away. And so a lot of times, like the first time I start talking for whatever reason, I'm just like, uh, you know, like I can't pronounce words right? And so that was one of my hesitations. I was like, I don't want to be talking all the time. forcing function I think was kind of important for me.

[00:11:02] 'cause once it kind of forced me to do it, and then I got over that little hesitation, and then I was like, oh, I get it. Whereas like, if you don't have to do something, a lot of times you're kind of just like, well, you know, it's,

[00:11:15] David: Yeah,

[00:11:16] Kalen Jordan: , but now I feel like the opposite.

[00:11:18] Like, I'll be describing a prompt and I'll start, or I'll start talking through it and then I, I feel like I'll end up getting into more detail than I used to get into when I was just typing it. It, I don't know man. It's a weird thing.

[00:11:35] David: that's cool there.. have been a lot of people talking about this, like just using voice instead and I

[00:11:42] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:43] David: gotta jump on,

[00:11:44] Kalen Jordan: talking.

[00:11:45] David: I.

[00:11:45] Kalen Jordan: I'd seen people talking about it and I was just, I didn't quite want to try it out, and then I kind of had to, and, you know, the other thing, , I finally using cloud code, full time. I had been using Cursor, and then I would jump into Claude Code if I had like something trickier, to do something like a little more challenging.

[00:12:06] But, you know, I was like, I can't be screwing around. Like I have to make sure that I'm not, like, , my efficiency doesn't tank, you know, and

[00:12:14] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:15] Kalen Jordan: , And because I was like, dude, clock coat is so expensive. Like you spend five minutes in it, it charges you five bucks. But I did that Max subscription, um, and I

[00:12:24] David: Yeah, I'm in there too.

[00:12:26] Kalen Jordan: Nice. You know, and I canceled my open AI subscription. It's like 200 bucks. It's like, in the beginning I was like, 20 bucks, man, piece of cake. This is

[00:12:35] David: Yeah,

[00:12:36] Kalen Jordan: Like, I can totally do that. And then 200, now 200 is table stakes. Now

[00:12:41] David: then they get you hooked.

[00:12:42] Kalen Jordan: dude, we're paying 200 bucks.

[00:12:45] David: I need to two x my productivity only $200. Are you kidding me? Actually, the one I bought was like a hundred dollars I think from Claude,

[00:12:53] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I still don't even know if I need the, the 200, I, I don't understand the fucking usage, the tokens, the me, it's like you get this many messages per session, per five hour session, or the equivalent tokens. And I'm like, what do you mean? Or the equivalent tokens. Like how, like, do I need to worry about my context window? , Do I have to stop, you know, chats and start new ones frequently, or can I just keep rolling? I'm like I have no idea. I've tried looking at the graphs to see my usage. I have no clue what's happening, but, um,

[00:13:27] David: We just need energy costs to go down, and then everything will be so cheap. We're just gonna have the ai.

[00:13:34] Kalen Jordan: yeah, dude, but God, Claude Coat is so much because like, and it's weird how with Cursor, I just sort of got used to, it not being that smart about things.

[00:13:45] And you

[00:13:45] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:46] Kalen Jordan: you just get used to like, it's gonna have like a, I don't know, like a 30% error rate or whatever, and you're like, okay, I'll find those things and I'll fix 'em. And, and then you're like, I don't want to pay for that Smarter model. And then you just decide to pay for it. And you're like, what, what was I doing? Why would I be using a Dumber model? It's like, it's stupid.

[00:14:05] David: Yeah. It's crazy how easy the transition is into giving them more money.

[00:14:11] Kalen Jordan: I know, I know. I mean, I know it's like we all went from not wanting to pay anything to this to like, okay, we'll pay 20 bucks to like, okay, two hundreds of steel to

[00:14:20] David: Yeah.

[00:14:21] Kalen Jordan: I'm just like, 2000 price point is right around the corner. And I'm like, I really

[00:14:28] David: Please. No,

[00:14:29] Kalen Jordan: Please don't. 'cause the second that freaking out, you know, Sam, posts that price point to something, you know, the entire industry is gonna follow

[00:14:40] David: everybody's gonna get it and we're gonna have to have it. 'cause instead of a two X, it's gonna be a hundred x and I of course want to be a hundred x Like everything.

[00:14:51] Kalen Jordan: or not? David, you not want to be a hundred x developer?

[00:14:55] David: that's it. That's the question.

[00:14:57] Kalen Jordan: you wanna

[00:14:57] David: If you have the option, why wouldn't you? Yeah. Come on 20 x you're not gonna stay. You're not gonna be caught up,

[00:15:05] Kalen Jordan: What kinda shitty 20 x developer

[00:15:08] David: an aging dev. You've been in the industry for too long. You gotta find your, gotta find your, your corner. You gotta find the edge.

[00:15:18] Kalen Jordan: Little bit of Adderall and, uh, and a

[00:15:21] David: And, uh, $2,000 a month.

[00:15:23] Kalen Jordan: You, you do what you wanna do, dude. Do you wanna lose your job and end up on the street or do you want to hit this

[00:15:30] David: No.

[00:15:31] Kalen Jordan: hit the 20

[00:15:32] David: Give me the ai, put it in directly in my veins. I need it.

[00:15:39] Kalen Jordan: Oh, dude. It's crazy, man, but I'm still using, sonnet. I'm not using Opus.

[00:15:45] David: Hmm.

[00:15:46] Kalen Jordan: Gil's

[00:15:47] David: how to change that. I'm just like in Claude code being impressed, like, yeah, sure, you can grip whatever you want. Grip. My whole, actually that happened once. It was like, I need to find something, and it's like, all right, let me grip this, the slash directory. And I was like, it was taking like 10 minutes and I was like, wait, what did you do?

[00:16:08] You're looking at the base directory of my entire, that's not smart. Let's not, let's please, can we cancel that?

[00:16:15] Kalen Jordan: I've never seen, I, it's only ever done things like relative to the now did you fire it up in your root directory?

[00:16:24] David: No,

[00:16:25] Kalen Jordan: Okay. Okay.

[00:16:27] David: like I was starting it up in an empty directory 'cause I wanted to start something from scratch and I was like, I feel like I have this file somewhere and it's like, alright, let's look in your entire documents folder or

[00:16:43] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. You just fire it up in your root and you're like, make my computer

[00:16:48] David: Yeah. Did you see the Claude Pewter though? That was awesome.

[00:16:54] Kalen Jordan: dude, I did. Yeah, I did. And, and, uh, Gil posted it and he's like, I'm gonna start a SaaS app with, I'm gonna get my cloud pewter to do a SaaS app and get it to 10 KMRR. And I was like, fucking Gil again.

[00:17:08] He's got

[00:17:09] David: at it again.

[00:17:10] Kalen Jordan: he's

[00:17:11] David: stealing all the MRRs.

[00:17:13] Kalen Jordan: and he found the loophole. 'cause you can't, like, if you work at Shopify, you can't do an app. But I thought he meant it literally. And I'm like replying to him. I'm like, wait, so how are you gonna, like, are you gonna set up an email address for your thing?

[00:17:26] And he's like, no, I don't think that would be. And I was like, but how are you gonna, and I, he was, I think he was joking, but

[00:17:33] David: But you're gonna actually do it. Let's get it. Get the Mac Mini, set it up in the corner.

[00:17:39] Kalen Jordan: Let's do it, man. I gotta get my money right David? I need fucking money. I want, I want

[00:17:45] David: It needs to make at least $2,000 a month to pay for itself.

[00:17:50] Kalen Jordan: MRR back, dude. I miss it. God.

[00:17:56] David: Missing the.

[00:17:57] Kalen Jordan: uh, and it's only, and the thing is, dude, I mean, it's only a matter of time. Give it three months, give it a month and a half. You're gonna, some dude's gonna tweet it out, and of course it might be fake, but it's, it'll be real within, three to six months.

[00:18:13] Dude. Somebody's gonna do that. Somebody's gonna do exactly that. They're gonna hit 10 K on a fully autonomous agent, dude. ,

[00:18:21] David: It's gonna be awesome. They're gonna have a, like a name. I mean, there, are some people that are doing those, like an experiment, like a, , a long lived kind of agent on Twitter where you can talk to them and they tweet things, but you never know if it's actually real or not.

[00:18:37] Kalen Jordan: Right, right. Yeah, I've, I've heard about a couple of those. I think there was one that started a meme stock or something and made actually a bunch of money on it or, or started a, coin or something like that.

[00:18:50] David: That's a great idea.

[00:18:53] Kalen Jordan: dude. Yeah. I gotta, dude, we gotta think bigger, man.

[00:18:56] David: I need Claude to think bigger for me.

[00:18:59] Kalen Jordan: Exactly. Exactly. I'm too tired to actually think bigger, but I, I did have this thought about like, everybody's worried about AI taking over the world, and it's like at this point, we basically know it's gonna be smarter than us. Uh, if

[00:19:13] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:14] Kalen Jordan: it's like a matter of time.

[00:19:15] Right. And then the assumption is, well, if it's smarter than us, it's gonna eventually take over because. Survival of the fittest or whatever. But I was thinking like we all pretty much accept like the person with the most like power in the world, whatever that means, is not necessarily the smartest,

[00:19:34] There's a lot of like, I don't know, ruthless business guys, or they have an intelligence.

[00:19:39] Obviously that's, maybe it's, there's different types of intelligences. I don't know. But like, when you think about quote the mo the most powerful person in the world, it's probably like Elon Musk aside, it's probably like some person who just has a bunch of smart people working for them. And it's like , they have a will. To gain power and like be able to do stuff. So it's

[00:20:05] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:06] Kalen Jordan: it's really their will, like it's their will to power that causes them to get the power, and then they just find smart people to do stuff. So I was thinking, it's never gonna have a will. I mean, and of course people will spoof it to say it has a will or whatever like that, but like if you assume it's never gonna have a will and we're gonna have a will and it's just gonna be super smart, then maybe it'll just go like that.

[00:20:30] Like it'll just be super smart and work for us,

[00:20:33] David: maybe I don't see how it would like, so the, the current iteration of what it is is like a kind of a stateless thing that just always responds to something that you give it. And the, the way the conversation works is you just continue to pass the whole conversation back. Right. But I feel like the part that, that I feel like they're working on is giving it a real memory and ability to learn over time, utilizing that memory.

[00:21:00] And so like when you get to that point, then maybe it does end up having a will just as a function of building up a memory over time that like doesn't take up too much context, but does inform the way that it behaves. I guess that's the scary part.

[00:21:17] Maybe I'm a bit of a dor, more of a DOR than you are, but also I think that would be sweet.

[00:21:23] Kalen Jordan: yeah, I mean, I go back and forth. I go back and forth between being extraordinarily optimistic and, being a dor, but

[00:21:31] David: Did you ever, uh, did you ever see, , cyberpunk 2077, the game?

[00:21:39] Kalen Jordan: I don't think so.

[00:21:40] David: There is, an AI that exists in that world and all it does is. Run a taxi service so it drives all the cars. And then like you can go into its headquarters and like talk to the thing, and it's just a big face on a screen. And it's interesting like the way that you interact with it, because it has, you do certain missions, like it's also involved in some kind of seedy stuff, but its main thing is just to drive cars around for people.

[00:22:10] It's kind of like,

[00:22:11] Kalen Jordan: That's crazy.

[00:22:12] David: It made that decision to go that route in business, I guess. And , it'd be awesome to see that, like those kinds of decisions happening, like what is it that they'll find to do if there is this like agent that exists as itself.

[00:22:27] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. But like, I mean, when you think about that, it's like you still have laws. I mean, so you still like the entity that owns the taxi service still has to be like a person unless they go and change the laws and do a bunch of crazy shit, which

[00:22:43] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:43] Kalen Jordan: will now that I think about it.

[00:22:45] David: Or the AI finds some person who is very happy to just like technically be the owner and take part in some amount of the money that comes in.

[00:22:54] Kalen Jordan: oh, that's an interesting idea. And then they blackmail the person. They're like,

[00:23:00] David: Yeah.

[00:23:01] Kalen Jordan: if you

[00:23:01] David: Listen,

[00:23:02] Kalen Jordan: try to ask for 20, more than 20%, here's all the information we have on you.

[00:23:08] David: I have an army of drones that lives in the sewers and.

[00:23:11] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:23:12] David: You're never, you're never gonna escape.

[00:23:16] Kalen Jordan: right. In Army of drones in the sewer. That's a show title. I love it okay, so nature is healing a little bit.

[00:23:26] David: Yeah. Didn't we have a list?

[00:23:28] Kalen Jordan: yeah, I've seen so many of these people running on this built with Chart madness. And then finally I saw somebody posted it. Explain like that it was not like that. It was nonsense. And I was like, okay, this is good.

[00:23:41] This is good to see. I, I, I don't know why it bothers me so much, man, but, that was,

[00:23:47] David: What was the pullback?

[00:23:49] Kalen Jordan: guy.

[00:23:49] David: I didn't see a new chart.

[00:23:51] Kalen Jordan: no, it was, it was like the

[00:23:52] David: I, I.

[00:23:53] Kalen Jordan: Some, some dude posted last week., It was like showing all of the e-commerce platforms being down by different percentages, and he's like, the whole industry's down. And so,

[00:24:05] David: Oh good. We're back.

[00:24:08] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. We're back. We're back in business. Oh dude, so I freaking built a Notes app, dude. A Mac Notes app. Um,

[00:24:16] David: about that. It looks super simple and like exactly what you want, I guess, huh?

[00:24:22] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, it is so cool because like, I never thought I'd be able to build a Mac Act. I mean, what am I gonna learn? Objective C or

[00:24:28] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:29] Kalen Jordan: know, like, it's just

[00:24:30] David: Swift or whatever.

[00:24:32] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, so like in the past I've like built a couple things that I kind of use as like a, a, a local app, but it's like a, um, next Js, you know, Chrome

[00:24:42] David: Oh yeah.

[00:24:42] Kalen Jordan: open

[00:24:42] David: time tracker.

[00:24:44] Kalen Jordan: yeah, and I just open it as like a chrome shortcut or whatever, but it like chew up a bunch of memory and things like that. , So I was like, dude, and so now that I'm using Claude and I have all these Claude credits, I was like, let me, let me take a crack at it. dude, it used Swift and it just knocked it out. I mean, I didn't even have to fire up, uh, X code because anytime I've had to use Xcode, dude, it is the most confusing

[00:25:09] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:10] Kalen Jordan: in the world. So I was

[00:25:13] David: It just kind of dumps you in there and it's like, hope you have years of experience using this thing you just opened.

[00:25:18] Kalen Jordan: so strange. And so at first. It was telling me like, okay open X code and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, wait, can we do this without X code?

[00:25:26] And it was like, yeah, we can do it with Swift and you can compile it and swift whatever. And so yeah, all I wanted was just 'cause notion is like slow uses a bunch of memory. All I want is like some keyboard shortcuts to jump between notes that's pretty much it. And like the native, apple Notes app doesn't have keyboard shortcuts. So I was like, let's do it. And it like knocked it out in hour and it's freaking, I even have a little, toolbar thing at like the top of the Mac toolbar where it like, in like shows like the current

[00:26:02] David: Oh,

[00:26:03] Kalen Jordan: note and stuff. It's so cool, man. It's like so cool. All the stuff we can build now.

[00:26:09] David: does it save each note as like its own text file underneath the app directory or something?

[00:26:15] Kalen Jordan: It just saves it all to one big JSON file

[00:26:17] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:18] Kalen Jordan: And it probably isn't gonna scale very well. And I gotta figure out how to back the JSON file up somewhere, so I don't like lose it somehow. Yeah, dude, just a little JSON file and the documents directory yeah, dude, it's like, it's, it's so cool that it's like there's all sorts of stuff that we can, that we can

[00:26:38] David: That is cool. Yeah, and it's like exactly to whatever you want. Uh, it would be super cool, like one of the things that I've been using lately on my Note app is that I can, it syncs with like iCloud so I can use it on my phone and on my Mac at the same time. That'd be pretty sweet.

[00:26:58] Kalen Jordan: Nice.

[00:26:58] David: Then you just have to have like an a Mac app or a Mac app and an iPhone app, all the Kalin apps,

[00:27:04] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:27:04] David: Kalin Suite.

[00:27:05] Then you can sell a Kalin Suite bundle,

[00:27:08] Kalen Jordan: yeah. I did sell Little Bundle. Yeah. I,

[00:27:12] David: the K suite.

[00:27:14] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah, yeah. I, and I don't use the phone notes too much, so I was like, uh, I'm not even gonna mess around with that. Um, but

[00:27:26] David: Yeah, it's one of those things that just kind of saves me like maybe once or twice a, a year

[00:27:31] Kalen Jordan: yeah. You need to something up. Oh, I probably will have some kind of an iPhone. I, I will get random ideas for iPhone apps, and then I'm just. Like, I'm just like, dude, I'm never gonna make an iPhone app, but maybe,

[00:27:44] David: the hill is smaller now.

[00:27:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah.

[00:27:46] Maybe I'll take a little crack at it. So build out some freaking hardware assembly or something like that going nuts. Um,

[00:27:57] David: like the like 3D printers coming along. Maybe people can start building their own robots more easily, and then you just got robots that are being built and the software for the robots is being built. I think, I think things are gonna get cooler and cooler over time. Like I, I love the idea of just making some custom little robot just because

[00:28:19] Kalen Jordan: Oh dude. Totally. , I've been trying to think of like cool things that like my son could get into with, robotics.

[00:28:27] David: mm-hmm.

[00:28:28] Kalen Jordan: And I got him like a little robot kit. We ended up returning it, but it was kind of cool. It had like a little programming thing to it, but don't know, like do you have any ideas for like, stuff to do with robots?

[00:28:43] Like with your kids?

[00:28:44] David: It does still feel pretty advanced, like, especially for younger kids. Like , my boy is, six and we have this, it's kind of like a little programmable robot where you can, it has a controller and you can do the steps that it should take to go along this board and push a ball into a goal.

[00:29:02] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:03] David: And he kind of has fun with that. You know, like it's something that's like programming in that you have to think ahead how many steps and where, what you should do in this next step, like five steps ahead.

[00:29:15] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:15] David: But it's definitely not like a, oh, this is a, like you're learning about robots.

[00:29:19] It's more like you're learning about thinking a bit abstractly and thinking ahead

[00:29:24] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:29:25] David: else. So, no, I, I don't really have anything that I've seen that's good from that, from like just making a robot.

[00:29:33] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. When I was telling him about it, and, we were waiting for it to, to ship here, and he's like, can it, like, shoot? You know? And I was like, I think so. I was like, I think so. I thought I could shoot little Nerf bullets or something,

[00:29:48] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:48] Kalen Jordan: just, I, I just imagined that.

[00:29:50] But dude, he got so pumped about that. He got like, and then after we took it out and stuff, he's like, how do I get it to shoot? And I was like, I don't think it can. He's like, you said that it could, but.

[00:30:04] David: ever return it.

[00:30:06] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. But I bet if you could get it to shoot and then like, you could like try to program it to like, mess with your dog.

[00:30:16] Shoot at the dog and then like, if it comes at you like retreat, you know, like have it build out at like a fighting algorithm against the dog or something

[00:30:25] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:25] Kalen Jordan: dude, like nerve bullets, that would be pretty cool.

[00:30:32] David: I have seen a couple AI toys and it seems like what they do is, focus on being able to hold a conversation with the kid, like it's a little stuffed animal and you just talk to it.

[00:30:43] Kalen Jordan: right, right,

[00:30:43] David: That is another place that kind of feels like there's

[00:30:47] Kalen Jordan: right.

[00:30:47] David: Open area for things to happen.

[00:30:50] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, dude, I like, if I had my way, man, I want my kids to be talking to Chet GBT all day long. For like learning stuff. If there's something they're curious about, boom, ask it. You go down a rabbit hole. I just wish it could be, a little bit kid friendly and I know there's kid friendly versions of it, but you know, you get a little nervous about that.

[00:31:12] David: Yeah, speaking of rabbit holes, my daughter really wants to get a rabbit

[00:31:16] Kalen Jordan: uh,

[00:31:17] David: I told her that she has to understand what it's gonna take to take care of a rabbit and like really get familiar with that and show me that she knows it.

[00:31:28] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:31:28] David: and then like maybe we'll get a rabbit.

[00:31:31] And what she did was ask Chad GPT and then just send me the full response. And I was like, okay. Thanks for asking Chad GPT. Sending me all of this text, but this does not mean that you understand.

[00:31:47] Kalen Jordan: That's awesome. That's

[00:31:49] David: we're at least getting to like the first steps of,

[00:31:51] Kalen Jordan: Right. But, and I mean, that's the whole learning process is, how to curate the responses, you

[00:32:00] David: right.

[00:32:00] Kalen Jordan: like I've started sending like chat GBT share links, a couple people send me chat, GBT share links. I think that's kind of cool.

[00:32:09] David: Yeah, that's exactly what I did when I first like started getting into stuff and I was like, whoa, this is crazy. You just share the whole

[00:32:16] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:32:17] David: thing and then once everyone's kind of aware of like, okay, yeah, no, we all know that you can ask it questions and it will answer them pretty well,

[00:32:24] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:32:24] David: What do you do with that to like put it into, take it to the next step or whatever?

[00:32:29] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of feels like I do hesitate to do it sometimes because I'm like, want them to know I looked up, you know, this Shopify API question in chat, GBT.

[00:32:41] David: Mm, mm-hmm.

[00:32:42] Kalen Jordan: just want them to think that I have the answer. and I used whatever tools I needed to use to find it, you know what I

[00:32:49] David: Right.

[00:32:50] Kalen Jordan: There's still skill involved in interpreting everything. I mean, especially Shopify API specific stuff, but it's getting better and better. So I do go back and forth a little bit, on that, you know, but I

[00:33:04] David: Yeah. It depends on what the answer is too. Like if you get to something that's really usable or put a lot of effort into the prompt or something.

[00:33:12] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah. Yeah. I gotta use some Google Cloud stuff, dude. And, uh, you're, you're a

[00:33:18] David: Heck Yeah.

[00:33:19] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:33:20] David: Yeah, I I feel like Google has a, a tool for just about each kind of thing that you want to do,

[00:33:26] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:33:27] David: and so I just use it because we already have billing set up there.

[00:33:30] Kalen Jordan: Right, right, right, right, right, right. I have used it here and there for small, random things. I find the interface horrendously confusing.

[00:33:39] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:39] Kalen Jordan: But I'm gonna work on a little like purchase order, classification type of thing. And, you know, the team already had, uses Google Cloud, like you were saying,

[00:33:49] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:50] Kalen Jordan: They're gonna want to run it through those APIs.

[00:33:52] David: Yeah, I mean, it has all the things like, uh, that you would expect, like, especially when you're thinking about CloudFlare. You have a, a worker kind of thing. It's just a function. And then you can populate that function with parameters that are set outside of it. So like, kind of like event paras,

[00:34:10] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:34:10] David: and then there's a cloud scheduler, so you can have it, you can define a Quran that will call the function.

[00:34:17] And really what it does is just send a post request to the function endpoint.

[00:34:21] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:22] David: Yeah, it all works together pretty well. And cloud code knows how to use the CLI tool that they have. So there's just a bunch of like GCloud, things that you can do with the GCloud, like that's the command.

[00:34:33] It's called GCloud.

[00:34:34] Kalen Jordan: Oh, right, right, right, right, so I was like, okay, I get, I'm trying to figure out which a PII am gonna use, and I'm like, okay, there's Gemini. And then, uh. one guy sent me a link to some benchmarks for like optical character recognition benchmarks, and it mentioned Google's vision, API. So I'm like, okay, maybe we're using the vision API. And then they also have something called, document ai, which has some like specific template models or whatever. And then I clicked into one of those for like procurement documents, and it said like, it linked me to a Google form to like manually request access to it.

[00:35:18] David: Interesting.

[00:35:19] Kalen Jordan: and then like, I don't know, I, I didn't know one of the answers to the question, so I didn't submit it. And then I tried to use another one of the, more generic AI models and then I didn't have permission because I have some fucking limited bullshit permissions in the Google Cloud account.

[00:35:38] David: I have not had to try and like spelunk my way through all of the different AI or vision tools that they have there. There's gotta be a bajillion of those.

[00:35:49] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. It's so weird. There's so many.

[00:35:51] David: I wonder if like, the newer model, like don't they have a newer, I forget what it's called, but it's like really good at generating images. I wonder if it can, if it's also really good at reading them, but maybe it's too expensive depending on the volume you're thinking of.

[00:36:04] Kalen Jordan: oh yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's crazy. They're coming out, I think. I saw they came out new model just the other day. It's crazy how fast, like new models are coming out for every in every subcategory, images, video, ,

[00:36:20] David: Yeah.

[00:36:20] Kalen Jordan: code. And I'm gonna just start calling him Sam.

[00:36:23] He's like the Sam in the whole world. Sam Altman, he said that he was using a new, one of their new coding models and he's like, yeah, it was like really, really good. And I'm just like, dude, it's right around the, that's gonna be the $2,000 model. I just realized that's gonna be the fuck. That's the 2000. It's right there, dude. He's already tweeted about it. It's gonna probably be published in a month.

[00:36:51] David: Clear out your budgets, everybody.

[00:36:53] Kalen Jordan: yeah, dude. And then on the Google Cloud thing also, I wanted to do something in CloudFlare workflows, which I don't know if I mentioned to you, but I talked to, um, Jordan, , the dude with the, , SCLE app. Super, super cool guy. He walked me through his whole app setup, dude. He showed me how he uses CloudFlare workflows and stuff. He spent like an hour while just walking me through it and I was like, ,

[00:37:19] David: Oh, that's cool.

[00:37:20] Kalen Jordan: super cool. And it, they're so cool. Like it's all code. When I saw workflows, I thought it was some visual builder thing. It's all code. But, within there you have an API to, initiate a step within a workflow. It's just like a function with a callback. You put your

[00:37:38] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:39] Kalen Jordan: in there and then it breaks the steps down. It does retry. It can retry a step automatically. It can

[00:37:47] David: Oh, I see.

[00:37:48] Kalen Jordan: workflow's complete, or if the workflow fails after retries, it has so cool.

[00:37:54] So, There's this thing I was wanting to do there, but then it looks like I'm gonna have to do a Google cloud. And so then I looked up Google Cloud workflows, and it does have 'em, but from what I saw, it's like. A YAML file where you can configure, different steps of a, of the workflow each step can do like an HTP post or something else. I didn't like it at all, is what I'm trying to say.

[00:38:22] David: Hmm.

[00:38:23] Kalen Jordan: Um,

[00:38:24] David: weird enough. Too complicated or something.

[00:38:27] Kalen Jordan: yeah, it just, I thought it might be the exact same thing as CloudFlare or it was like May, I was like, maybe CloudFlare copied Google with their workflows feature, you know what I mean? Because I'm not that, I don't know anything about Google.

[00:38:38] David: Is this workflows thing from CloudFlare new?

[00:38:40] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. It's, relatively new, I want to say the last maybe few months I think it came out.

[00:38:46] David: Hmm.

[00:38:47] Kalen Jordan: , But yeah, it's just really, it's just really clean, the way it works. It's just, it's, it's

[00:38:54] David: I guess it's just like in a, an opinionated way for you to, to put together workers. Huh?

[00:39:00] Kalen Jordan: I would say it's not that opinionated because it's like you can create steps and that's pretty much it. You can define retry steps. You can start workflows on events or , fire events for it to pick back up on a workflow, whatever. it's all code. So I feel like it's less opinionated. Like if you have a YAML file, you're working off of, like the YAML file is defining all of the things you can do. It's like, okay, you can do an HEP post. Great. What if you want to do something else? Well, that's not supported. 'cause the only thing that's supported is what

[00:39:40] David: Gotcha.

[00:39:41] Kalen Jordan: in that YAML config file versus if it's all just JavaScript. You know what I mean? It feels like it's like

[00:39:48] David: You can just write the code. Gotcha.

[00:39:50] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. But anyways, man, I know a lot of people like Google Cloud. I probably just gotta get over the learning curve.

[00:39:58] David: What's the free tier on CloudFlare look like for workflows? Maybe you can sneak it in there and just use it.

[00:40:05] Kalen Jordan: Just not even tell them. In this case it probably would go over it, but I think, actually a little confused about the workflow pricing, because the workflow uses workers, like each step is a worker under

[00:40:18] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:19] Kalen Jordan: the hood, which is kind of cool. And I think they all the same limits and stuff apply.

[00:40:24] And then I was like, wait a minute, does that mean that if you do a workflow with 10 steps, you're getting charged for 10 workers? Which would kind of suck because you

[00:40:34] David: I see.

[00:40:34] Kalen Jordan: those 10 steps into a single worker a lot of the time it, it would be nice. It would be a nice, like you. even in the logs, it's really easy to see the steps, you see the input output. So I want to start using more steps, because it'll just be more user friendly to, and it'd be, the code will be more maintainable. The logs will be more maintainable. But then I was like, wait, if I'm gonna get charged 20 times as many? So I, but then I, I read this other part and it said it didn't charge it.

[00:41:02] Like, I don't know how they charge. I gotta start just using it a little more and then take a look at the usage.

[00:41:07] David: Yeah, interesting. I'm gonna have to think of a reason to use this

[00:41:15] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:16] David: so I can understand it more too.

[00:41:18] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's kind of cool. I know you mentioned , some of the data, big queries, stuff like that, but is there anything else on GCP that like is cool, like any cool services to check out or.

[00:41:31] I

[00:41:31] David: no, like I mentioned the,

[00:41:33] Kalen Jordan: 'cause I've always wanted

[00:41:34] David: yeah,

[00:41:34] Kalen Jordan: with that.

[00:41:35] David: BigQuery is cool. It's just like a, a database that's there and works and it's super fast. , We just kind of like dump all of our data there. Like it's an actual data warehouse and you can pull stuff together when you need to. , So the, the other thing I was using was cloud run.

[00:41:51] And so there's cloud run functions and cloud scheduler,

[00:41:55] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:41:55] David: Which are both pretty nice to use. And then. Lately I've been getting more into Looker, uh, I think it's called Looker Studio, whatever one is, , free.

[00:42:07] Kalen Jordan: right.

[00:42:07] David: been pretty cool, , especially with, 'cause it, it's super well tied into BigQuery. So basically any data that's in BigQuery, I can pretty easily pull into Looker and visualize it somehow.

[00:42:19] Kalen Jordan: that's cool. I've definitely heard about that one. Is that how you're making that one chart you were talking about? The,

[00:42:27] David: the, that's like custom Claude stuff. It's still faster to get, like if I've got some smaller set of data, it's still faster to have Claude make like a specialized visualization if I'm looking for it. And then if I get to something that feels like it's good, I could probably actually do it in BigQuery, but,

[00:42:45] Kalen Jordan: And

[00:42:46] David: BigQuery, but , Looker.

[00:42:48] Kalen Jordan: yeah. If you're using cloud to build a custom visualization, is it able to hit BigQuery with like reporting queries, like aggregate queries so that, you know what I mean? Like, or do you have to like instrument it to go like, loop over all the orders or like something crazy like that, or?

[00:43:06] David: Yeah, a lot of the time I'm doing those custom dashboards. It's a small set of data, like weekly sessions and transactions and revenue for the last 10 weeks, for 2025 and 2024.

[00:43:19] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:19] David: like I, I'll do the work of gathering all that data, give it to it on a CSV and say, this is the way I wanna visualize this.

[00:43:25] and then just to kinda like prototype. That stuff. But yeah, eventually what I would love to, to have is just like direct access to all that things, all those things. Context of how we do certain, like what our opinions are on some reporting things.

[00:43:41] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:43:42] David: like the 4, 5, 4 schedule and then what's the best way to get to that.

[00:43:46] All that stuff is like a lot, lot of context to build up, but it, it would be like the best solution would be to have something that has all that context and also access to the raw data.

[00:43:57] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:43:59] David: Uh, we're not there yet.

[00:44:00] Kalen Jordan: like reporting queries that like can aggregate stuff up like Shopify ql,

[00:44:06] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:07] Kalen Jordan: cool. But then, you know, there's limitations. Like you try doing some type of query and you're like, oh, you know, the field's not there, or whatever.

[00:44:14] David: Right.

[00:44:15] Yeah. It's pretty cool to, 'cause like in, in Google Analytics, there's also this thing where you can stream all of your event data to BigQuery.

[00:44:23] Kalen Jordan: mm-hmm.

[00:44:24] David: And like under a certain amount, it's free to do it. Yeah. So then I can just pull together event level data from, Google Analytics, like a purchase event and tie that to an actual order in Shopify and then see if it's new versus repeat.

[00:44:42] I'm finally seeing some of the light on, just having all of your data in this giant thing and then you can pull it all together. Like I, I was never a database administrator, but it feels pretty nice to be able to stuff together like that.

[00:44:54] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, that's cool, man. That's the type of thing you're, when you're in-house with the brand, you're gonna be doing you analytic stuff, some interesting

[00:45:03] David: Yeah.

[00:45:05] Kalen Jordan: I was talking to somebody about like, in store versus online inventory issues for some like, kind of weird use case, but, , it got me thinking about it and like different best practices. Do you guys have to ever deal with like in like in-store point of sale inventory versus online conflict? Like somebody buys something online and it steals the store inventory and then the like, then the store says, well keep a certain safety stock. Or like, do you guys

[00:45:32] David: Yeah.

[00:45:33] Kalen Jordan: that in place?

[00:45:34] David: Yeah. We have a, a small safety stock that we've been trying to get down over time just with being better at inventory counting.

[00:45:41] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:41] David: It's always a risk. And there's also shenanigans that can always happen in the real world, like, someone accepts a return in store and it shouldn't have gone back into inventory, but it did because they didn't check a certain box or something.

[00:45:54] I don't know, like there's always something weird where , and that's why you have to do inventory counting every once in a while. , But yeah, we do have a low, like a small safety stock in stores because we are selling store inventory through a bopus or a ship from store.

[00:46:10] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:46:11] David: If the only unit that's available is in Malibu, we'll want to sell that one,

[00:46:15] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:46:16] David: from online.

[00:46:17] Kalen Jordan: right.

[00:46:19] David: Um.

[00:46:19] Kalen Jordan: any logic in place to like. There's that one in Malibu and then somebody's in in store wants it, but then it got online, but they were already looking at it or whatever.

[00:46:33] David: It doesn't happen often. And that's because a lot of the time, if online sees that there's only one left in Malibu, there might actually be two. Until we know that, like there, there's settings that we have in place in NetSuite where we can be like, all right, don't buffer this one at all anymore.

[00:46:50] 'cause it doesn't sell like it. We've had this one unit for, months and now we feel like we don't need to have a safety stock for it. So just take that off.

[00:47:01] Kalen Jordan: Right, right.

[00:47:03] David: so haven't had a ton of issues. I mean, there's always some level of, . Having to make a customer sad because we Yeah. Oversold them something, but we have reporting in place to make sure that we can tell them quickly like , that's the important thing is like, oh, really sorry that this happened.

[00:47:19] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:47:19] David: It happens way less often these days just because we've like , the big reason is because we've gotten a lot better accounting inventory and handling those edge cases where like things should go back into stock or not,

[00:47:32] Kalen Jordan: right.

[00:47:32] David: et cetera.

[00:47:33] Kalen Jordan: I was thinking it through and I got some feedback and like, I was thinking like, okay, you, you could automatically reserve the inventory when you know somebody adds its cart online and then lock it for the point of sale, or, thinking about all these complicated solutions and then.

[00:47:48] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:49] Kalen Jordan: Somebody replied, and they said, a lot of times what people do is they just cancel the online order after the fact. And I was like, yeah, that basically, I think is the best answer. Like, prioritize the in-person per,

[00:48:03] David: Yeah.

[00:48:03] Kalen Jordan: order and then just cancel it. And then somebody else said, you could cancel it and give them a, a coupon.

[00:48:11] And I was like, that's pretty cool, because you obviously don't want to upset the in-person customer even more, but you don't want to upset the online person either. It's a rare enough thing that you give 'em a coupon. That's a, a cool little, like, surprise, delight. You know, I feel

[00:48:25] David: Totally. And hopefully like there's a lot of stuff you could do from a technical perspective to try and make it not happen. But then when it does happen, the important thing is to make sure that you know it happened and you don't like leave this person that's online who ordered it hanging for a few days.

[00:48:41] Like let them know as soon as possible. But also, like, that's kinda the way you have to do it because the in-store person just walked away with the only unit you have. So like, you can't run after them down the street. Like, hold on.,

[00:48:55] Kalen Jordan: No, but

[00:48:56] David: so.

[00:48:57] Kalen Jordan: let's say that you could detect that, the online order just sold two minutes before they walk up to the cash register, even if

[00:49:06] David: I see.

[00:49:06] Kalen Jordan: you know what I mean? Even if you knew beforehand, to then say no to them when they were just in the store for an hour and making the decision feels like the wrong thing to do, you know?

[00:49:16] David: Yeah, and that's why,, I think safety stock is, is interesting, especially if it's like, even if it's just one unit, because let's say you have one unit out on the floor, so that's the one that is potentially able to be grabbed by a customer and brought to the front.

[00:49:30] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:49:31] David: you know, if You've only got one, maybe it's actually back in the inventory room or something.

[00:49:35] Kalen Jordan: right. And, and the added complexity to this one use case I was talking about was they sell like one of one products. Like each product is totally unique.

[00:49:47] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:48] Kalen Jordan: so that's why you can't really do a safety stock thing. , Whenever

[00:49:52] David: Yeah.

[00:49:52] Kalen Jordan: product, you know, every variant has exactly one or zero quantity.

[00:49:57] David: That's very interesting. I'd have to think about I, I guess what makes it unique?

[00:50:02] Kalen Jordan: like, this is an

[00:50:03] David: Yeah.

[00:50:03] Kalen Jordan: Like, I gotta, I gotta like chew on this, you know?

[00:50:06] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:07] Are they custom made and immediately kind of put on the shelf in the store and online at the same time?

[00:50:12] Kalen Jordan: they're like resale things. Like they, they're like

[00:50:15] David: Uh

[00:50:16] Kalen Jordan: items, so they have specific condition, you know,

[00:50:19] David: mm-hmm.

[00:50:20] Kalen Jordan: specific pictures to see that exact item. So you're getting a used something or other, you know what I mean? It has a little bump on the side, but that's it. You know what I mean?

[00:50:31] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:32] Kalen Jordan: so that's why they're one of one.

[00:50:35] David: I would start thinking about, or asking about what the process is for fulfilling an online order for one of these. Like, do you have customers walking through what is basically your fulfillment center? And when people place orders, do you have someone who rubs out and picks the item that was just sold?

[00:50:54] Um,

[00:50:55] Kalen Jordan: right.

[00:50:56] David: does it take for them to do that? And how often does it happen now that you run into these like,

[00:51:01] Kalen Jordan: Right.

[00:51:02] David: Oversell situations and then maybe there's maybe some solution comes up while you're kind of walking through all that stuff?

[00:51:09] Kalen Jordan: Right. Right, right, right. Yeah, those are good questions. Those are the type of questions you ask when you've actually dealt with like, a warehouse and shit like that.

[00:51:20] David: Yeah, it gets crazy. and There's like whole warehouse management systems that are set up for all that kind of stuff. I mean, I think it would be awesome to go to. Amazon fulfillment center and just like watch how things happen. That's gotta be an experience.

[00:51:34] Kalen Jordan: fascinating, dude. That would be, yeah, just watching it, all the robots and shit. That would be so fascinating.

[00:51:40] David: Yeah.

[00:51:41] Kalen Jordan: . It is funny. I want to like pause and give a quick advertisement to Jordan's, stock take at point of sale app because like, Jordan, the dude that walked me through his, the CloudFlare workers and stuff,

[00:51:53] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:54] Kalen Jordan: because I just, I felt like he was just so generous, you know, , just took the time and, you know what I mean? And I'm just like, what a fucking cool guy, you know? And, and I think his apps are like gonna be, I think they're already successful. I think they think they're gonna be super successful.

[00:52:09] David: That's cool. Is this a new one called Stock Take?

[00:52:12] Kalen Jordan: I can't remember the exact name of it. But yeah, it's like a point of sale app and it's specifically for, being able to quickly stock take and stuff like that.

[00:52:21] So,

[00:52:22] David: Cool.

[00:52:23] Kalen Jordan: yeah, it's, probably a pretty, pretty solid app for that type of

[00:52:27] David: Oh, it's like scanning. Scanning the barcodes to count.

[00:52:31] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:32] David: Sweet.

[00:52:33] Kalen Jordan: . Yeah, it's funny, I, I totally wanted to like insert a little ad. Um, but no, it's

[00:52:40] David: Hashtag.

[00:52:40] Kalen Jordan: when like people are like, people that you kind of know are gonna be successful.

[00:52:44] Like, they're gonna be like a gale with like a big ass app and you know what I mean? They're gonna be like, making a shit shitload of money and stuff. And the fact that like, even in the very beginning when they're just getting started and they're, you know, that they're still generous with their time is like, know, that's cool to me.

[00:53:03] David: Yeah, I agree. And it seems like there's some great people out there in the Shopify realm that are

[00:53:07] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:53:08] David: that, just happy to like, share and talk about stuff. And that's probably part of the reason why they, 'cause they also maybe get something from hearing people out on what their problems are.

[00:53:18] Kalen Jordan: No, they prob I'm sure they do. I feel like I'm not that like, ah gosh, like I feel like

[00:53:24] David: Oh yeah, me too.

[00:53:25] Kalen Jordan: not great about I, I honestly, I honestly not, and that's why I am saying I like when people do do that. Like, I, I think it's cool because like if somebody, you know is like, Hey, let's, let's like talk can you show me how you did this or that?

[00:53:39] I'm like, I'm not gonna schedule a call just to like, know what I mean?

[00:53:43] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:44] Kalen Jordan: them like really well. But if someone that I know like Medium well, like replies to like a post and it's like, that sounds cool, let's do a call and walk me through it. Like, I'm probably not gonna, you know, I'm like, I got dude, I got work to do.

[00:53:57] Like, you know what I mean? I got a

[00:53:59] David: Yeah,

[00:53:59] Kalen Jordan: blah, blah blah. I'm probably not gonna do that call unless I know them pretty well. But you know what I mean? Like, some people are

[00:54:07] David: totally.

[00:54:08] Kalen Jordan: down to jump on a call and maybe it's 'cause we're old. I don't know. Maybe it's just 'cause we're old and like.

[00:54:16] David: But the like willingness to jump on a call definitely shows a passion. I think passion's definitely a,

[00:54:20] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:54:21] David: part of success too.

[00:54:22] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, totally. Actually, I've been thinking about the other guy is Dennis,, with, the checkout Links app?

[00:54:29] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:30] Kalen Jordan: I think he got the Builder award, for it and, ,

[00:54:33] David: Yeah,

[00:54:33] Kalen Jordan: at

[00:54:34] David: I was there for that.

[00:54:35] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:54:36] David: That was sweet.

[00:54:37] Kalen Jordan: I saw a video post because I had seen him post about it. I was like, okay, whatever. It's a link.

[00:54:42] Who cares? And then, I saw like Shopify developer's account posted a video clip of it. I think it was Liam, I think Liam did the voiceover and just the way it was put together and the fact that. They were doing it. So I'm like, oh, they see this as a native, , it is a very native thing. Like definitely

[00:54:59] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:00] Kalen Jordan: it.

[00:55:00] I'm thinking. And, and also it just made me think about how well it was implemented. like, this fucking guy, dude. And actually something that's interesting is Dennis had hired me to help him with some flows, for his app. It wasn't the Link app. It was another app I think that he has.

[00:55:18] Anyways, I remember being sort of surprised. he wanted to pay 'cause as like an indie developer that he wanted to pay, you know, 150 bucks an hour for me to like, help with the flows. 'cause normally it's like, you know, bigger brands or whatever, like, , I wouldn't pay somebody, you know, 700 bucks to build me flows or whatever, you know, like I wouldn't want to spend money that freely if I'm just indie bootstrapping,

[00:55:44] David: Yeah. There's some risk there.

[00:55:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah, there's some risks there, and I remember thinking like, it's weird that he wants to pay for that, whatever. But now as I've seen how well he's done all the Shopify integration points, like all of the na potential native integration points he could do, he's hitting 'em all, including flows, right? Because everybody loves some nice flows tied into your apps.

[00:56:07] You can

[00:56:07] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:08] Kalen Jordan: to other things. And I thought the fact he was willing, and he could have figured it out on his own, it's like not rocket science, but the fact that he was willing to be like, okay, let me pay the flow guy. 'cause I want this to be as perfect as it could possibly be. not to say that I made the flows perfect or anything like that.

[00:56:26] It's just, it's not like a, it's

[00:56:27] David: Yeah.

[00:56:28] Kalen Jordan: work of art on that side. But the fact that he was like, let me prioritize this because I want every touch point to be as good as possible. I'm like, makes me realize that's why he's succeeding. The fact that he

[00:56:40] David: Totally.

[00:56:41] Kalen Jordan: he cares that much. You know what I mean? , So yeah, that's, that's,

[00:56:46] David: Yeah. He went and, and like sought you out because of kind of you're known to be the flow guy and so, oh, let me go like that. That's very entrepreneurial I feel like, to be like, oh, okay, he's the flow guy. Need to get him in here to make the flows the best.

[00:57:00] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:57:01] David: pretty great.

[00:57:02] Kalen Jordan: And I haven't been doing as much flow stuff lately. There's actually a flow channel in the, in SDA and I popped in the other day and I was like, man, I haven't even been answering these questions. I got tagged once or twice. I didn't reply for like five days. Like you know, I'm losing my credibility as a flow guy.

[00:57:23] David: Said it's good to be busy.

[00:57:24] Kalen Jordan: It is gonna be busy. On SDA, it's funny because, well I sent you the screenshot, but I was, they were asking something about, the Loop app, which you have recent experience with. And I was like, replying and I was like, dude, David needs to get in here, man, this I, you know,

[00:57:39] David: Oh yeah, I gotta get in there.

[00:57:41] Kalen Jordan: Um,

[00:57:42] David: There's no way for me to click a button to request. You have to like

[00:57:48] Kalen Jordan: Fucking

[00:57:49] David: you gotta summon.

[00:57:50] Kalen Jordan: Taylor

[00:57:51] David: you gotta summon the summon. A meeting with the, the heads and

[00:57:55] Kalen Jordan: dude. So you literally, 'cause I was like, 'cause you said you want to join and then you didn't. And I was like, ah. He probably just was saying that to be nice. He didn't actually want to like, pay for it, but you're like, no, I went to pay for it and the fucking website didn't let me pay for it.

[00:58:10] David: it's very exclusive.

[00:58:12] Kalen Jordan: Okay. I, let me pull some, let me, I know a couple people,

[00:58:15] David: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:58:17] Kalen Jordan: could do. Okay. Let me see what I could do I'm just gonna charge you a small administrative fee. Nothing, you

[00:58:23] David: Yeah.

[00:58:24] Kalen Jordan: major.

[00:58:24] David: Oh, I'm sure they have a little finder's fee in there.

[00:58:28] Kalen Jordan: Just a little, you know, just for my time, you know.

[00:58:30] But I'm

[00:58:31] David: Yeah. Well,

[00:58:31] Kalen Jordan: I'm gonna make some introductions. I'll set up some meetings and, just make sure you interview well, you know what I mean? Just prepare for the, you know, and I'm sure you'll,

[00:58:41] David: I am kind of nervous.

[00:58:42] Kalen Jordan: I'm sure.

[00:58:44] David: We'll see.

[00:58:47] Kalen Jordan: I'm

[00:58:47] David: We'll see.

[00:58:48] Kalen Jordan: chance. I'm gonna put in a really strong word, you know what I mean? And I think it's, I think it's gonna go a long way with Taylor.

[00:58:55] David: What is my, uh, what's my CV for this thing? Here are my posts in the Shopify Dev, , community. There are two or something.

[00:59:04] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, but you know what I think it is, is just probably there's more, like more random people or people that are sort of like borderline just wanna spam or something like that. Maybe

[00:59:14] David: Oh yeah.

[00:59:15] Kalen Jordan: Sign up, pay or whatever. And then maybe the issue is like, once you get the payment, you feel like a pressure to let them in, even though you kind of feel like you wanna keep the

[00:59:24] David: Oh, gotcha.

[00:59:26] Kalen Jordan: You know what? I'm just guessing? I'm just guessing. Like maybe that's, why he did it. , But

[00:59:31] David: Yeah, I bet there's some of that.

[00:59:32] Kalen Jordan: because like, because in general like it's a pretty cool group. But you know, there are sometimes people that kind of just reply to every post that's related to work and it's like, I'm available

[00:59:44] David: No, that curation is super important. I I still get people reaching out to me in the Shopify Slack, just like random people saying like, Hey, I'm, I would like to have you give me money for things.

[00:59:57] Kalen Jordan: Oh, nice. Yeah. Oh, oh, right. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, it's cool. But, yeah, that's, gotta, we gotta get you up in there, dude.

[01:00:09] David: Get me in.

[01:00:10] Kalen Jordan: we gotta get you in. Okay. Last slash second to last. It's just a thought that I had, dude, I just want to get your feelings on it. I was thinking about, okay.

[01:00:19] I was thinking about the BuiltWith chart, things that

[01:00:21] David: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:22] Kalen Jordan: out so much, and I was imagining if the Shopify Twitter account or linked whatever, that a Twitter account went full unhinged, like Wendy's, , you know about the Twitter Wendy's account where they just say like, wild shit

[01:00:37] David: Yeah,

[01:00:37] Kalen Jordan: you've, yeah.

[01:00:38] David: like tagging people.

[01:00:41] Kalen Jordan: Just create, yeah, like, I was thinking it'd be hilarious if like the Shopify account replied to the guy with like an internal screenshot, like showing their growth going up and was, you know, just told the guy he was a dumb ass or something. Like, I was like, dude.

[01:00:57] David: That would be awesome.

[01:00:58] Kalen Jordan: I was like how cool would that, and I know it would be totally inappropriate, but that's what, that's what makes these things fun is like, how fun would that be if like, they just went totally unhinged.

[01:01:11] David: We need to figure out getting you to ghostwrite for the Shopify dev Twitter for a day.

[01:01:19] Kalen Jordan: in

[01:01:20] David: It's like

[01:01:21] Kalen Jordan: thousand years. Dude, Liam brother. Hook me up, man.

[01:01:25] David: hook it up.

[01:01:27] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[01:01:28] David: always some deniability if you just let everyone know that someone else has taken over for a day, then you can just do whatever you want.

[01:01:34] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. it would,

[01:01:36] David: Maybe.

[01:01:39] Kalen Jordan: that would be pretty fun. Dude, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start lobbying for that dude, just like I'm gonna tag Liam on it, every few months over the next like couple years, I'm gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna make this happen.

[01:01:51] It might take some time,

[01:01:53] David: It is been 200 days since I suggested you should let me take over the Twitter account. I'll like every one of them,

[01:02:01] Kalen Jordan: right. Okay. Last, last thing, because this was just hilarious, but have we talked about simulation theory at all? Like bit?

[01:02:11] David: I mean, probably.

[01:02:13] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, probably. Anyways, I like talked to my wife about it, like for the first time, and I, I sort of like had like a semi-serious, like, yeah, I think this could be that, or that could be

[01:02:25] David: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:25] Kalen Jordan: you know, then I, sometimes I think like, maybe you're not even real or whatever. And then she kind of laughed, but then like later on, like a couple different times, she like, she said, like, I'm not a simulation. Kind of like seriously, you know? I felt like simultaneously I felt so horrible, you know, for like saying that. And then also in the back of my head thinking, but that's what they would say.

[01:02:53] David: Yeah,

[01:02:54] Kalen Jordan: know

[01:02:54] David: it would. He would say that, wouldn't you?

[01:02:59] Kalen Jordan: That's exactly what you would do, you know?

[01:03:04] David: my wife gets scared of the thought of us having like a robot walking around in our house. 'cause I keep telling her it's gonna happen.

[01:03:11] Kalen Jordan: Oh, yeah.

[01:03:12] David: It's like, like, oh man, that's, it's like

[01:03:15] Kalen Jordan: do the

[01:03:15] David: another person.

[01:03:16] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. 'Cause the whole humanoid form factor, like, it's

[01:03:20] David: Yeah, exactly.

[01:03:21] Kalen Jordan: like a

[01:03:22] David: Yeah.

[01:03:22] Kalen Jordan: the counter that, you know, whatever, and, and it can talk to you, but the human form factor is gonna, it might feel weird, man.

[01:03:31] David: I think you're right. That might be the, that might be the thing that we discover is that it should not look human. Otherwise. It's kind of too weird.

[01:03:40] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. And then everybody just keeps going. Like, now the humanoid robot, like, you know, is the thing. And like everybody's, there's gonna be 7 billion of these things within 20 years. And I'm like, okay. All right.

[01:03:51] David: Oh.

[01:03:51] Kalen Jordan: robots. It is,

[01:03:53] David: Hmm.

[01:03:53] Kalen Jordan: you know, I thought it was gonna be the little dog robots or like robotic arms or like, you know, drones or something like that.

[01:04:01] But.

[01:04:02] David: I just wanna ride piggyback on something again. I haven't had a piggyback ride in years.

[01:04:11] Carry me up the stairs, norm.

[01:04:14] Kalen Jordan: been hitting squats, man. I'll, be able to, I'll, yeah, I

[01:04:17] David: Oh, nice.

[01:04:18] Kalen Jordan: Next,

[01:04:18] David: Next meetup. Uh, I'll, I'll grab a quick piggyback.

[01:04:22] Kalen Jordan: yeah. I'm gonna be squatting some, some putting some good weight over the next year. That's my goal.

[01:04:29] David: I am counting on you.

[01:04:30] Kalen Jordan: yeah. I'll be ready. I'll be

[01:04:32] David: It's either you or the robots.

[01:04:34] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. But, honestly, as I'm thinking, thinking it through, probably they will have conversations with you and,

[01:04:43] David: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:44] Kalen Jordan: and you probably like the robot is in the kitchen, whatever, making a meal like. And people will probably differ. There'll probably be people who will be totally fine being like radio silent, but then other people will like, know, want to have a conversation.

[01:05:01] And then it'll probably, and you could probably fine tune like the thing, like

[01:05:05] David: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:06] Kalen Jordan: lighthearted. Or some people will be like, you know, yeah, just argue with me about politics. That's my love language. Like, we'll do that for an hour while I make dinner. And it'll probably be a, actually like a, a, an additional like really cool component to it to feel like, you know, like,

[01:05:25] David: Yeah,

[01:05:26] Kalen Jordan: will be so good. The conversation will be so good even a year from now, like, know.

[01:05:32] David: did you ever, , like , when cameras came out, like cameras for your house, , like it started to become a big thing and so I had a nanny cam, and I'll never forget the first time, like, I watched what my dog did while I was gone during the day,

[01:05:45] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:46] David: and it just kind of sits there and it like, it's really sad.

[01:05:49] I feel like I would feel sad for this robot. It's just like in my house. Like, man, I, I would like for you to be able to go do stuff, but also you're not human. But is it like, I don't know. That's the weirdness for me, I think.

[01:06:03] Kalen Jordan: you, is it that you feel like you want them to be like they deserve to be out in the world doing stuff, or is it

[01:06:13] David: Yeah.

[01:06:13] Kalen Jordan: like, okay, so if it was busy doing Rubik's cubes or like. know, making cool Lego con, like it could make a cool Lego construction or build a cool, like for, , blanket for it for your kids.

[01:06:28] It's like, if it was

[01:06:29] David: Oh, that'd be cool.

[01:06:30] Kalen Jordan: would that be, would you still feel like, oh, he deserves to be on vacation in Costa Rica right now?

[01:06:38] David: Yeah, I don't know. That's the part that I'm not sure like how I will feel based on what the, what it looks like when it actually comes out

[01:06:45] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[01:06:46] David: operates. Like if it's very person like, then definitely I will feel bad.

[01:06:51] Kalen Jordan: But you're not gonna feel like it should go on vacation, right? That's kind

[01:06:56] David: I don't know,

[01:06:58] Kalen Jordan: that's a

[01:06:58] David: like, hey, okay, so my robot's name is Norm. Like, Hey, norm, we're gonna be back in a week. We're just gonna go.

[01:07:04] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[01:07:05] David: without you. Thanks for always doing our laundry.

[01:07:09] Kalen Jordan: Oh,

[01:07:10] David: I don't know.

[01:07:10] Kalen Jordan: can see that. I can see. I thought you meant like if you guys aren't on vacation and you feel like, hey, he works well, , 51 weeks a year, he deserves to take a vacation. But you're saying like he went on vacation with you versus you leaving him at the house. That is a little bit, that does feel a little wrong.

[01:07:31] David: Yeah.

[01:07:32] Kalen Jordan: It

[01:07:32] David: Like he's just there

[01:07:34] Kalen Jordan: me and then you're buying an

[01:07:35] David: like my, yeah. I mean, I'd be cool with that. I feel like I would feel bad

[01:07:41] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[01:07:41] David: just like having a, my house is like, it's prison.

[01:07:45] Kalen Jordan: right. But I mean, it could walk. Okay. Okay. So what if you, you, you tell it, to walk the dog, and so now it walks the dog around a beautiful neighborhood. Does that make you feel better? That's a little better, right. Than being locked in the house?

[01:08:06] David: I mean, it probably doesn't do anything for the robot, but it would make me feel better

[01:08:10] Kalen Jordan: It

[01:08:10] David: unless the robot has like, smell sensors or like, can enjoy seeing sights.

[01:08:17] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[01:08:17] David: know really depends. I feel like

[01:08:19] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[01:08:20] David: hypothetical, so

[01:08:21] Kalen Jordan: very hypothetical, but I do, yeah, I, I do kind of understand where some of these feelings, at first I thought I'd have none of those feelings. And as you're describing, I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, no, I could see that. I could see that.

[01:08:35] David: Yeah, it's weird.

[01:08:36] Kalen Jordan: like

[01:08:37] David: just gotta keep thinking about it.

[01:08:38] Kalen Jordan: yeah, I mean, crazily like on the one hand, it'd be great to have somebody else walk your dog for you.

[01:08:43] And on the other sort of feel less like I was imprisoning, the robot is 'cause kind of a win-win,

[01:08:51] David: What is it that a robot finds fun? It is probably not walking a dog like you. You can have some extra electricity tonight, buddy. I,

[01:09:03] Kalen Jordan: That's so wild, dude. So you'd be kind of thinking, what is it? If there's something that made me feel like it was having fun, then I'd feel less bad.

[01:09:14] David: I guess like it's doing all this stuff for me.

[01:09:17] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[01:09:17] David: It's doing all this, like the microwave does stuff for me, but my microwave can't hold a conversation, so I don't feel bad.

[01:09:24] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[01:09:24] David: But seems like these things will.

[01:09:27] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. But like, what if it's like, my purpose is just to, to, you know, my job is to, um, you know, serve, your house. What I mean, and

[01:09:38] David: Yeah.

[01:09:39] Kalen Jordan: If there's any sense of meaning that the robot is gonna find, it has to be in that they're doing the work they were designed to do.

[01:09:49] Like I don't think robots can have feelings, but if they ever possibly could, that would have to be just like it is for us. It's kind of the ultimate well work and then procreation. Procreation, we gotta, can't worry

[01:10:00] David: Hmm.

[01:10:01] Kalen Jordan: too much, but Right. So if it's doing the work it was built to do, it's gotta be fulfilled.

[01:10:06] David: Yeah. I guess, unless that is just the way that we shackled it to do the thing that we wanted it to do. But like now, now I'm thinking about the, like the counterpoint to this would be, uh, I'm probably giving too much. I'm feeling like we are playing God too much where, and really it's just a tool that we made.

[01:10:25] So don't think too much about it. Like, it, we're not making another person that's a, that's a completely different thing. And to think this way is a little bit, , I dunno what the word is. Like, we're thinking too highly of ourselves that we should be worried about this thing's, feelings or, , needs when really it's just like a, a much more sophisticated shovel.

[01:10:50] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. But I just think

[01:10:53] David: So I don't know.

[01:10:54] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I just think we can't help but feel those feelings when something looks similar to us and

[01:11:01] David: yeah, definitely.

[01:11:02] Kalen Jordan: like we just, just human nature to have a weird, and the more realistic they are, the stronger that feeling would be. So if I'm imagining a Tesla robot, that's what I was imagining this whole time. Now imagine a, a lifelike with. F flesh, like real flesh and stuff like that.

[01:11:20] David: Yeah. That's great. That'd be crazy. Yeah,

[01:11:23] Kalen Jordan: crazier. That would be, and facial expressions. I mean, and then if

[01:11:30] David: right. Higher and higher fidelity.

[01:11:33] Kalen Jordan: yeah. If it used a sad face expression related to you talking about vacation, that's all I would have to do. all I would

[01:11:42] David: Yeah.

[01:11:42] Kalen Jordan: And then you'd feel, feel it like a ton of bricks. But if it never, it was, if it never expressed any sadness, be different If it was like, oh, have a blast. I'm gonna have a blast here too.

[01:11:58] David: Yeah.

[01:11:59] Kalen Jordan: You know

[01:11:59] David: I love being in your house. I love, I love plugging myself in and standing in the corner for 48 hours straight.

[01:12:07] Kalen Jordan: what if it's like, I love unplugging. 'cause then my mind grows into the multiverse and. I have a blast,

[01:12:13] David: Oh yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, I'm gonna spend a ton of time, like I'm just gonna hallucinate the whole time you guys are gone and it's gonna be awesome. I'll paint some pictures to show you what I thought about.

[01:12:26] Kalen Jordan: What if it's like, what if it's like, tells you that it's a euphoric experience to plug into the multiverse and it's like, literally, I'm gonna be so happy I'm chilling. You guys have a blast. You know what I mean?

[01:12:39] David: Yeah, maybe there'll be a subscription for them plugging into like some cool different multiverses, but also I'm gonna need you to unhook every once in a while to go. Cut the grass, please.

[01:12:53] Kalen Jordan: I don't know why this is cracking me up so much. All right, brother. We're over our time,

[01:12:58] David: We are, oh, we're going on a Lex Friedman four hour Talk about robots next time.

[01:13:04] Kalen Jordan: Dude. Oh my gosh. I listened to the DHH interview. I think it was five and a half hours on Lex.

[01:13:11] David: That's crazy. I'll probably never listen to that.

[01:13:13] Kalen Jordan: dude, I never thought I would, and I sort of hated him, uh, for a while. And now I kind of d don't, but, and I listened to a lot of two, three hour podcasts, but dude, a five and a half hour, it was wild. 'cause you know, I pause it and, you know, as I'm run, going from place to place,

[01:13:30] David: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:31] Kalen Jordan: And then I'd, I'd be like, I'm like four days into it, you know, Liz pausing and restarting. I'm like, this is a but, and it, you know, and all the, all the topics were interesting. It was like a really like flowing like conversation. I.

[01:13:43]