[00:00:00] Intro

[00:01:09] Kalen Jordan: Dude. I, was messing around with the new website and, got the little gag. I have a little game boy thing in there. So I was thinking about, you know,

[00:01:17] David: Yeah. It looks awesome.

[00:01:19] Kalen Jordan: boy, having some fun with it. it's So nostalgic for me, dude. All the video game

[00:01:24] David: Yeah, me too.

[00:01:26] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:01:27] David: the, uh, the missing episode on there.

[00:01:33] Kalen Jordan: nice. Yeah, I was going through and putting him in and I was like, wait, is this episode four is episode? I was like, oh, right. So then, yeah. That's pretty funny.

[00:01:45] David: Nice little memorial. But these images are great.

[00:01:49] Kalen Jordan: oh dude, those, those

[00:01:51] David: You just jammed through those.

[00:01:53] Kalen Jordan: I love the GPT images, man. It's like stuff, like creative stuff like that, or like, you could knock out little icons for, web apps or

[00:02:03] David: Yeah, they're really good.

[00:02:05] Kalen Jordan: it's so

[00:02:06] David: Especially text in the image is like way better.

[00:02:09] Kalen Jordan: Oh, yeah. It's gotten a lot better, but

[00:02:12] David: They got some science going on over there.

[00:02:15] Kalen Jordan: oh my God, dude. Can you imagine? Like sometimes I think like we're just over here, like consumers just like, I type it in and it gives me what I want. I'm

[00:02:25] David: Yeah.

[00:02:25] Kalen Jordan: what are they actually doing over there? You know? Like they're working on some super, complicated stuff.

[00:02:33] David: Dark magic

[00:02:34] Matrix math.

[00:02:36] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I saw this cool visualization of Matrix math the other day. I was like, oh, that makes sense. It just like showed the numbers visually.

[00:02:47] David: Yeah, it's weird.

[00:02:50] Oh man. I still have a little bit of a cold one too many times.

[00:02:53] Kalen Jordan: Dude.

[00:02:54] David: my son just coughed into my mouth.

[00:02:58] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:02:59] David: Good times.

[00:03:01] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. That's not fun. That's, that

[00:03:05] David: what you get.

[00:03:07] Kalen Jordan: that's not good. , yeah. Tell him, dude, don't cough in my mouth. Like, maybe like tangentially in the face, but straight, straight to the mouth

[00:03:16] David: That doesn't work. No. He'll like open his mouth all the way and stick his tongue out and just cough right at me.

[00:03:23] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Dude, you gotta start slamming the vitamin D man. I swear. I swear

[00:03:28] David: I should

[00:03:28] Kalen Jordan: get sick anymore. It's so ridiculous, man. So straight. It's so

[00:03:33] David: my doctor started having me take some vitamin DI took some yesterday. I wonder if that's why it's not so bad. I

[00:03:38] Kalen Jordan: nice. And I take a lot of it, so I, I saw this video on TikTok and it was like, it was

[00:03:45] David: Vitamin D maxing.

[00:03:46] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, it was full on bro science, and it just, I just went with it and he's like, you got a macro dose of vitamin

[00:03:54] David: Yeah, you got that and the creatine going,

[00:03:57] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. And, and so I take 3000% of the daily of, of the daily value. So it's like three

[00:04:08] David: your pee's gotta be straight blue.

[00:04:13] Kalen Jordan: No, no. That, have you heard about the methylene blue?

[00:04:16] David: Yeah.

[00:04:17] Kalen Jordan: Okay. Yeah.

[00:04:18] David: Does that do that?

[00:04:20] Kalen Jordan: yeah, it does. Yeah. I haven't taken that, but I keep hearing about it and I'm probably gonna start at some point, but that's a little advanced for me. Like anything that like turns your insides blue, that's a

[00:04:31] David: Yeah. It's a little.

[00:04:32] Kalen Jordan: That's such a bizarre one that like, if it turns out to be true that this thing is like purely good for you, and it's just like this food die from like the 1960s. That's the strangest one. You know, like that's the weirdest one by far.

[00:04:53] David: That's my favorite thing from science is like totally unexpected. For some reason, this thing just does this other thing really well and we don't know why.

[00:05:02] Kalen Jordan: right. Like it's one thing if they go like, oh yeah, , and then they iterate on it and they go, oh yeah, we're gonna take this good part. Weed out the bad parts from the

[00:05:12] David: Yeah,

[00:05:13] Kalen Jordan: You know, that killed your pancreas. But when the thing just straight from the sixties, just as it existed, then as a food die, a blue food dye or something, just all on its own, turns out to be a miracle drug is like, that's strange, man.

[00:05:30] David: I gotta do some more research on this.

[00:05:33] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. But yeah, dude, additions is around the corner. Getting excited, getting,

[00:05:40] David: yeah. They got their site up and running,

[00:05:43] Kalen Jordan: Yep.

[00:05:44] David: got the schedule

[00:05:45] Kalen Jordan: Got the sketch.

[00:05:48] David: kind of.

[00:05:49] Kalen Jordan: I saw some posts on that. Did you, did you dive in?

[00:05:53] David: Yeah. And I started, started looking and it says more details coming soon, so it's a little bit of a tease. I think

[00:06:01] Kalen Jordan: Okay. Okay.

[00:06:03] David: There's some, dev mode masterclasses and dev mode round tables, which sound pretty cool. And there's a, , a shop tank, so you can bring your app there and it's like Shark Tank for apps.

[00:06:16] Kalen Jordan: Nice. Yeah, I noticed,

[00:06:17] David: I.

[00:06:17] Kalen Jordan: noticed that one. Are the dev mode masterclasses all about?

[00:06:21] David: It says here more details coming soon,

[00:06:26] Kalen Jordan: That's all it says.

[00:06:28] David: so I dunno.

[00:06:30] Kalen Jordan: Okay,

[00:06:31] David: I imagine there'll be one on like theme building or something?

[00:06:36] Kalen Jordan: This is actually perfect for additions. 'cause like that's what they do at additions is they go, there's all these features, but

[00:06:43] David: Yeah,

[00:06:44] Kalen Jordan: they're, they're all coming soon. So it's

[00:06:49] David: just in time scheduling.

[00:06:51] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I realize like, the word vibe code is all over the place. I realize I, what I do at conferences, I vibe conference, which is that

[00:07:00] David: Oh,

[00:07:01] Kalen Jordan: I don't like to plan anything advance.

[00:07:03] I don't like to plan any meetings ahead of time. , you know what I mean? I don't like to look at the schedule. I just like to go and play it by ear.

[00:07:14] David: that's fun.

[00:07:15] Kalen Jordan: Sometimes that'll bite you in the butt, especially with all these stupid like little party events that you have to

[00:07:21] David: Yeah.

[00:07:22] Kalen Jordan: for, even though it's a free RSVP. Like if you don't do it ahead of time, then you're kind of screwed. Or you gotta go like, ask someone for a favor and feel like a real dumb ass.

[00:07:33] David: Oh yeah.

[00:07:34] Kalen Jordan: like

[00:07:34] David: I used to always just try and sneak into those.

[00:07:37] Kalen Jordan: Sometimes it's harder than other times to sneak in. Sometimes they go, what company are you with? you can tell, you can tell that if they're not

[00:07:44] David: oh,

[00:07:46] Kalen Jordan: by what you come back with.

[00:07:48] David: so I can't just partake in this free bar situation you got here.

[00:07:54] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah. Dude, I saw this, tweet. Like somebody was like saying that they're like a marketing person with a SaaS company, and they're like. We're gonna take, uh, like, uh, I dunno, like a few people or like 10 people that are, , with brands to Coachella for like a VIP experience.

[00:08:13] Like behind the scenes tickets, like, I don't know, just all sorts of like crazy stuff. Probably like a luxury car ride in there too or something. I'm thinking

[00:08:23] David: Wow.

[00:08:24] Kalen Jordan: like. You're, and obviously I mean, they're doing that to get their business,

[00:08:29] David: Yeah.

[00:08:29] Kalen Jordan: I wonder what it feels like being the brand side person. 'cause when

[00:08:35] David: Yeah,

[00:08:36] Kalen Jordan: putting that much money into it, either you have no shame whatsoever and

[00:08:42] David: I know.

[00:08:43] Kalen Jordan: I don't give a damn about these stupid SaaS people. They

[00:08:46] David: Never gonna use this product.

[00:08:48] Kalen Jordan: Or you're like, look, I'll look at it, but if I'm not interested, I don't care.

[00:08:53] They could spend five grand on me, I could care less. Or you go into it kind of knowing like, okay, like I'm gonna kind of owe them. I'm gonna have to like, use the product, um,

[00:09:03] David: I agree. That feels weird. I feel like it's less weird and maybe you're less likely to be invited on one of these things, but like, if you already use their product or have been using it for years, I would feel less bad. Like

[00:09:17] Kalen Jordan: totally.

[00:09:18] David: Avalara had us come to a ball game with them and I was like, well, yeah, we install Avalara on all of our clients, so Sure.

[00:09:25] I'm not gonna feel bad about that, yeah. When it's like a product you haven't used yet, it def I I would feel weird.

[00:09:32] The vibe conferencing, I wanted to ask a question on that. It must depend on the type of conference, right? Like if, if there's a big, like, place to walk around and kind of see what's going on, I could see vibing that, but,

[00:09:44] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[00:09:44] David: Sometimes it's like you kind of have to figure out what it is you're gonna go see.

[00:09:49] 'cause there's just so much that's happening at the same time.

[00:09:53] Kalen Jordan: well. Do you though? Because

[00:09:57] David: I guess that's just gotta follow the vibes, huh?

[00:10:02] Kalen Jordan: effective way to do it, but I'll usually, like, especially if I'm hanging out with somebody having a good time and they have somewhere they want to go, I just tag along. As long as it's

[00:10:10] David: Oh yeah.

[00:10:12] Kalen Jordan: a completely horrible session, as long as it's not like how to write marketing copy for your app or something like that, then um,

[00:10:20] David: I see. But yeah, you want to be there for like the conversation and just kind of see what happens and not feel like you have to stop to go do something.

[00:10:28] Kalen Jordan: But it can be hit and miss because sometimes, you know, you go, oh man, I really wish I would've done that other thing. I I am not gonna say it's the smartest way to live your life, but it's,

[00:10:41] David: It's one way, it's my way.

[00:10:43] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, exactly. well,

[00:10:46] David: I gotta make sure I don't click this pen,

[00:10:49] Kalen Jordan: I have a list. We've got two lists.

[00:10:52] David: the dual list.

[00:10:53] Kalen Jordan: We've got a, a, a dual list approach. Do you, okay. So, at the end of the last, episode we started talking about this thing and you're like, oh, this, this whole thing. I think it was maybe related to the tariffs and AB price testing.

[00:11:07] David: Yeah.

[00:11:08] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:11:10] David: Yeah. I've been looking at this app called, intes. It's on the Shopify app store, and they do like fully Shopify integrated. Price testing. So what that means is, like, basically the way it works is you set the top price as the actual price on the products you want to test.

[00:11:28] Kalen Jordan: Hmm.

[00:11:28] David: And then they do, like a behind the scenes discount, as like a cart function and a checkout function that doesn't show up to the customer.

[00:11:38] I don't know how that works,

[00:11:39] But basically as soon as you land on a page, you become part of either the test group or the control group.

[00:11:45] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:46] David: in the control group, you get that higher price. If you're in the test group, you get the lower price 'cause you get this like secret function that's running against your cart,

[00:11:54] which I thought was pretty interesting.

[00:11:55] And that seems like the only way really to do it for Shopify. Like you have to have some sort of discount function in place in order for that to work fully integrated through checkout.

[00:12:06] Kalen Jordan: Right?

[00:12:07] David: So I'm pretty excited about that.

[00:12:09] Kalen Jordan: Nice.

[00:12:10] David: They got me set up on the sandbox with the free testing, so I have to actually get in and try it out.

[00:12:16] It's been a bit of a week this week. But yeah, hopefully I'll, like, I, I was talking to our product team and they seem interested, so hopefully we'll be able to do some of that soon.

[00:12:24] Kalen Jordan: Nice. Yeah.

[00:12:25] David: Otherwise, yeah, it's just like, raise prices 'cause you kind of have to

[00:12:29] Kalen Jordan: I've always heard good things about in intelligence, but haven't,

[00:12:32] David: Oh, cool.

[00:12:33] Kalen Jordan: it too much. Yeah. So basically just tack on a little bit to cover some of the tariff situation.

[00:12:41] David: Yeah, and like specifically when we, need to raise prices, there's like this psychological, like if you're going over the a hundred dollars mark, so like going from 3 79 to like four. Or something that's, a lot worse than staying within the 300 range,

[00:12:59] Kalen Jordan: Right.

[00:13:00] David: but it would be good to actually test that and see what the impact is.

[00:13:04] Kalen Jordan: That sounds cool. Does it have an option to be like, Hey, instead of just doing a, fixed percentage, like do like a bump that stays within those psychological limits.

[00:13:15] David: Oh, I don't know about staying within limits, but Yeah. One of the things I need to test is can we upload like a list of prices because we, like our, prices are all like, no cents. It's just, uh, like we have everywhere in the liquid, price without trailing zeros because we don't have anything.

[00:13:34] Kalen Jordan: Just

[00:13:34] David: But it would, yeah, it would have to straight dollars.

[00:13:37] But so yeah, when, anytime we make any changes, it's always like a specific price, not really a, , a percentage increase.

[00:13:44] Kalen Jordan: Gotcha. Gotcha. So you'll just figure

[00:13:46] David: Then the other thing I have to figure out is like if someone goes on desktop and they see a certain price and they put something in the cart and then they go on mobile, obviously if they're not logged in, they might see a different price.

[00:13:57] But if they're logged in and they already put something in their cart, we have to make sure that the price stays the same. So that just a couple things I need to test there.

[00:14:05] Kalen Jordan: If they'd start on their computer and then go to their mobile.

[00:14:09] David: Right.

[00:14:10] Kalen Jordan: Oh, okay.

[00:14:11] David: Because you can't really solve for that, ,

[00:14:13] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I don't think

[00:14:14] David: unless they're logged in. So maybe there's some way that they like, have a sticky, grouping based on the account, which would also be possible in Shopify. So hopefully they do that. That was one of those questions where the guy was like, let me go ask the team and I'll get back to you on it, but I just need to test it.

[00:14:30] Kalen Jordan: You're like, yes, I stumped him. like, you're not, you're not done with a SAS call until you get at least one of those.

[00:14:38] David: Oh yeah,

[00:14:39] Kalen Jordan: to you. Questions. Yeah.

[00:14:42] David: How much do you know about this thing you're selling me?

[00:14:46] Kalen Jordan: yeah. It's funny because I don't know, whenever merchants ask me to get on a call with like a vendor, I feel like that's what they want me to do.

[00:14:54] They want me

[00:14:55] David: Yeah,

[00:14:56] Kalen Jordan: you know,

[00:14:57] David: sniff it out.

[00:14:58] Kalen Jordan: yeah. And I don't know, I don't know if it's just I'm not good at that or I'm not, try to do that or like, I'm just like, let me see the documentation. Let me like think it, I think I'm not quite as fast on my feet in those situations. I like to sit down and think it through, so I feel like I always like fail their expectations with that stuff.

[00:15:21] David: But then you hit 'em with the email after you get access to the docs.

[00:15:24] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. That I hit him with a strong email. You know, I hit him with a, I hit him with a strongly worded email after my poor, uh, in-person performance. And then they're like, wow,

[00:15:36] David: We all per perform well in, in different scenarios. Okay, Kaylin? It's okay.

[00:15:40] Kalen Jordan: you're the CTO or the, the director of whatever the hell.

[00:15:44] David: Yeah. Who knows? I

[00:15:46] Kalen Jordan: funny with the discount thing, dude.

[00:15:48] So I built this discount, functionality back, I don't know, a month or so ago for this one client. And I, you know, they were like, oh, we have this trade show coming up and I was rushing to get it done. I got it done. I was all proud of it.

[00:16:01] David: nice.

[00:16:02] Kalen Jordan: it was like they could set a discount, it would run it, uh, against individual product prices and stuff like that. then, they never, like, I was like, okay, can you guys test it out? Didn't test anything. Followed up a couple times, had a phone call, can you create some collections? 'cause they wanted to create discounts against collections. And it like went in and did the, it handles like per variant conditions on the collections.

[00:16:25] Like it, it

[00:16:26] David: Nice,

[00:16:27] Kalen Jordan: The conditions and runs them against the variance so that it's not just per product. I was so proud of myself. And Then I realized the other day, I, and then I was like, okay, they're gonna hit me up last minute when this trade show happens and it's gonna be a fire drill.

[00:16:41] And I was like, stressing about it. And then the other day I realized, wait a minute, I think the trade show's over. used it at all. And I'm just, yeah. I'm just like, God, that's frustrating.

[00:16:55] David: Did they already pay you for it?

[00:16:57] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:59] David: Okay, well.

[00:17:02] Kalen Jordan: Dude, we're on a prepaid. We're, yeah, we, you gotta keep, you

[00:17:05] David: There you go.

[00:17:06] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. You gotta keep it prepaid. It's the only

[00:17:09] David: Somebody was a little busy, I guess.

[00:17:11] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Alright. Uh, let's see. I've had a whole psychological shift, emotional shift , with open source because back in the Magento days everybody did everything open source just by

[00:17:24] David: Oh,

[00:17:24] Kalen Jordan: you know,

[00:17:25] David: uh huh.

[00:17:25] Kalen Jordan: and it was like, we all just love to share with each other.

[00:17:28] SAS wasn't really so much of a thing back in the day, and it's

[00:17:32] David: Yep.

[00:17:33] Kalen Jordan: such a thing. And I had a little success with it. And so then it gets to the point where like the default is like, let me monetize this. I have something, let me monetize it. I'm wanting to get back to that cushy life of having like a set, you know, but I realized that, I need to be patient and like let it happen and not try to just make it happen because even if it takes me a couple years or something like that, that's still fast. Like it might not happen in a month or two or something like that. And also, I don't know, it you, you have to find the right idea. You have to be in the right place mentally. I don't know what it is, but I just kind of accepted like, you know what, I'm gonna just kind let it go.

[00:18:19] Like, it's still a goal, but like for the near term, I'm just gonna let it go. And so like, I was working on this sync thing for like meta objects and because I needed it for this, uh, store dev store we were setting up. And I was like, oh, let me just, see if anybody wants me to open source.

[00:18:36] It got some replies, like, cool, open source. It got a bunch of, you know, like likes. I was like, oh, cool. You know, internet, fake internet points. It just feels good. It's kind of liberating for me and it kind of feels like it's taking me back to those earlier days when like, things were a little more pure, things were a little more simple. There's something kind of like corrupting about the, the influence of SaaS in a way. Like everybody's sick of so many apps and, everybody's trying to over monetize and stuff like that. And,

[00:19:08] David: Yeah, I can see that.

[00:19:10] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:19:11] David: like, if you take this approach, I feel like this is the TikTok approach where you just like keep posting and eventually one of them will hit like the, like you'll just keep working on stuff and eventually you'll find the thing that is the killer app or whatever.

[00:19:26] But if over that time you've been, building your internet point cred, then it'll be a little bit easier for you to like broadcast that out when you feel like you have found the thing.

[00:19:36] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I think so. I think so. And, yeah, that, makes sense. And at the same time it's like, that's fine. You know, like I, I, I'm actually kind of enjoying it more. Like, I'm kind of, because also when you wanna productize something, like, there's a lot of work that goes into that, and then you gotta do a bunch of support and then you're stressed about reviews.

[00:19:56] If you get one bad, you could spend 70,000 hours, you get one bad review. It's like your app's done, you

[00:20:03] David: Yeah.

[00:20:04] Kalen Jordan: Like there's a lot of like, pressure where it's like you throw something up, open source, it's like, cool, it's up. There's nothing else to do, you know? Um, so

[00:20:14] David: there a way to like have a free app, I guess you probably tried this, where it's like free and then there's a paid tier, so you try and like get installs somehow, but then it's not open source. 'cause then it has to be like deployed to the app store and all that.

[00:20:30] Kalen Jordan: right, right. Exactly. And then, when it's free, you know, people, have it installed and then like, 'cause I've, I'm actually sunsetting the Flow app that I did a little while back

[00:20:40] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:42] Kalen Jordan: You can't just turn an app off, which was a surprise to me when I first learned.

[00:20:47] You can't just be like, all right guys, I'm done. You have to send an email to everybody. You have to send it 30 days out. Then you have to send a second email to sunset it. And there's some other, like, conditions and stuff like that. And, you have to give people alternatives. Like they want you to do it gracefully, which makes sense.

[00:21:05] Then also like if there's a compliance thing that happens where you need to update compliance for your app and you don't do it, they'll send you an email telling you that they can cancel your entire partner account, which means every store that I have access to for my work, is gone.

[00:21:21] Yeah. I was like, damn, that's kind of stressful. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna just sunset this sucker. Just, you know, kind of part of that whole same thing of just kinda letting this app thing go for a minute. , But yeah,

[00:21:34] David: So once you found that out, were you like, ah, man, I gotta figure all this out right now and then like shift your focus there?

[00:21:42] Kalen Jordan: also I thought like, they had been sending me these emails, but I just ignored them because they're like, you know what, I'll just let the app like die. Like it's fine. And then, then like two days out they're like, we're gonna cancel your partner account. I was like, what? So I, it ended up not being like a ton of work, but like, you know, there can be compliance stuff that could come up that could be like a lot of work potentially.

[00:22:06] David: Yeah.

[00:22:06] Kalen Jordan: you'd be on the hook for it. So

[00:22:09] David: So maybe not a free app then.

[00:22:11] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of fun to do. So like this, sync thing I did is kind of, it just, it, I'm standing up a dev store, so it just pulls in meta objects and then I pulled in meta fields and then today I need to pull in some product data.

[00:22:25] So I pulled in product data so it grabs it from one store and pushes it to another.

[00:22:30] David: That's awesome. Does it resolve like ID references and stuff somehow?

[00:22:35] Kalen Jordan: So it did, I got it to resolve a, a meta object Id reference on a meta field. So it did that, but I didn't do like extensive, testing of different types of references. 'cause I think

[00:22:50] David: Yeah.

[00:22:51] Kalen Jordan: more like cases of references that it would need to handle.

[00:22:55] I did have it handle at least one case of them,

[00:22:58] David: interesting. I know when Matrix, I does like meta object imports and exports. It tries to refer to them like by handle so that there aren't IDs.

[00:23:09] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:23:09] David: I don't know how they calculate that handle. Must be some magic.

[00:23:14] Kalen Jordan: right. Yeah. No, the handle, yeah, the handle is, it's just a field on it. I think I did the

[00:23:18] David: Gotcha.

[00:23:19] Kalen Jordan: but then. So you just have to look up, like if you're setting a med object, ID reference on a, like a customer meta field. Then you just have to look it up, , by handle and then set the id.

[00:23:33] David: Uh, would it be, so like if it was a product list, meta object, you could use the product handle to try and match it up to a product in the dev store or something.

[00:23:44] Kalen Jordan: I think so. Yeah, I think so. And that's a good example of something I don't think is currently handled. a

[00:23:52] David: Gotcha.

[00:23:53] Kalen Jordan: product.

[00:23:53] David: Yeah, that's the, that's one of the ones that always kicked my ass when trying to do stuff in Sandbox.

[00:24:00] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. There's probably a bunch of little,

[00:24:03] David: Is it a, like a node app or something? Or how do, how do you run it?

[00:24:06] Kalen Jordan: it's just a node, uh, command line, , script. So you just install it, MPM install, and then you just run it, you know, command line.

[00:24:15] David: Like give it your credentials or something

[00:24:17] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah, just, the little JSON config file for C credentials.

[00:24:23] David: Nice.

[00:24:24] Kalen Jordan: yeah. And then, , needed some like, dummy products for another thing I was working on today, so I added like, some dummy product generation. So, you know, just like stuff that you're doing, you know, like stuff that you have to do for your own work and then

[00:24:37] David: Yeah.

[00:24:38] Kalen Jordan: it up, you know, and

[00:24:39] David: Might as well package it up a little bit.

[00:24:42] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:24:42] it's Like GPT generates the read me, like the read me is is,

[00:24:47] David: Heck yeah.

[00:24:48] Kalen Jordan: it's like pretty

[00:24:48] David: It's done.

[00:24:50] Kalen Jordan: It's been pretty, pretty fun,

[00:24:52] David: Yeah, I saw there was some interest on, on Twitter about using that thing, so that's cool. I'll have to go check that out.

[00:24:58] Kalen Jordan: honestly, because everybody used the Matrix, AFI and I, I was like, I didn't know if they did meta object definitions. I couldn't find that, but I,

[00:25:06] David: I'm not sure.

[00:25:07] Kalen Jordan: pretty sure, I was pretty sure they do like else. So like, when I did the product stuff today, I was like, this is really unnecessary, like Matrix if I has products like fully handled. I didn't have a license for it. And I was like, I asked the project lead, like should I just build

[00:25:25] David: Uh, it's kind of expensive.

[00:25:27] Kalen Jordan: for it. But then this other dude mentioned that he was interested in it because he had a client that for some reason, uh, didn't want to use Matrixx fy. So, I dunno. And it's cool to just, build stuff just 'cause you want to too.

[00:25:41] David: Yeah.

[00:25:42] I feel like that's what you do really well is just like build stuff, make it exist. That's a Kalyn trait.

[00:25:48] Kalen Jordan: Just go with the

[00:25:49] David: Just vibe it out.

[00:25:51] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Oh this dude Daniel Beck, he posted a, Raycast extension, which, Raycast, I don't use it, but I saw also Taylor mentioned it.

[00:26:03] David: yeah,

[00:26:04] Kalen Jordan: it, you

[00:26:05] David: I tried it out.

[00:26:06] Kalen Jordan: okay I was planning to use it 'cause I didn't realize it had so much stuff in it. but a GraphQL doc search, so you can just tab over. the command palette and then boom, search your which

[00:26:21] David: I might have to give it another shot. I tried it out as like a replacement to the spotlight search 'cause I use Spotlight a lot, but it was a little bit too different for me that I, I kept messing up. Like in Spotlight, if you search for a file name and then it finds it and you hit enter, it opens it.

[00:26:40] Whereas in Raycast you have to like hit tab and then down arrow and then enter. And I was like, I don't wanna do all that,

[00:26:47] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:26:47] David: but maybe I could just get over it 'cause there's some cool stuff in there.

[00:26:51] Kalen Jordan: right. It's all about the like muscle memory with those types of things. Like it

[00:26:55] David: Yeah.

[00:26:56] Kalen Jordan: a little work to readjust and then sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. Is spotlight the, the default MAC one, or

[00:27:06] David: Yeah, like command space, I use that all the time.

[00:27:09] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I use that. you know what's funny?

[00:27:11] I never use it for files. I should probably start doing that. I just, I just

[00:27:16] David: Well,

[00:27:17] Kalen Jordan: like apps and settings.

[00:27:19] David: yeah, I probably use it mostly for apps and then like also it's my calculator. I just use it as a calculator all the time

[00:27:27] Kalen Jordan: nice.

[00:27:28] David: files, though I don't know why, but Apple is still so bad at file search, like it sometimes the spotlight

[00:27:35] Kalen Jordan: ridiculous.

[00:27:37] David: will break and you have to manually make it happen again by removing every file from Spotlight Search and then re-add it.

[00:27:45] It's like how is this a problem that we're dealing with in user land right now with Apple? I don't, I don't get it. When you try and search and finder too, it's so bad. I'll type out like most of the file name. It'll still say, none found. So then I'll go like, remember where it was? And I was like, yeah, I didn't, I wasn't wrong about this file name at all.

[00:28:06] It just didn't, didn't find it

[00:28:09] Kalen Jordan: It's horrendous.

[00:28:11] David: lame.

[00:28:12] Kalen Jordan: That's the kind of thing you Yeah. You think that would, that really should be a lot easier.

[00:28:17] David: Yeah.

[00:28:18] Kalen Jordan: That's crazy. I finally got the MCP tool, the Shopify MCP to auto run in cursor. The,

[00:28:28] David: yeah, because you were saying you had to like give it permission every time. Right.

[00:28:31] Kalen Jordan: uh, it's so annoying because it usually will run three or four times, like for, for something that needs to do. It'll be like, okay, introspection thing, and then confirm, and then I switch tabs, and then I come back. Because like when you're like AI coding, what you do in between the prompt generation is like a whole new problem that humanity has to solve Now. Because, you know what I mean?

[00:28:59] Because it can be five seconds, it could be 30 seconds, and it's like, you gotta find something to do. , Like, sometimes if I'm being super productive, I'll switch over to my, like, architecture notes and I'll like, continue planning out architecture while it's generating,

[00:29:16] David: Yeah.

[00:29:16] Kalen Jordan: sometimes when I'm not being as productive, I'll like check Twitter when it's generating. But like, anyway, it would confirm it like four times, like with like three seconds in between like this, this is

[00:29:29] David: Stop asking me questions.

[00:29:31] Kalen Jordan: yeah. yeah, there's just a setting in cursor where you can whitelist command to auto run. So

[00:29:40] David: That's perfect. That's like one of those things, like back in the day when you had to know all of the secrets of the IDE to get it to like

[00:29:47] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:29:48] David: work with debugging, you just gotta find that little setting and then you're like, oh yeah, this is now, it all works

[00:29:54] Kalen Jordan: Right.

[00:29:56] David: I'm still, I feel so behind on the AI coding.

[00:30:00] I'm so scared I need to just like. I, I just need to do it. I've been like talking to chat GBT about, like, I'm trying to figure out how this DBT stuff works. And so before I understand what's going on, I wanna like ask a bunch of questions. So I'll like type out what I want to do and then it'll give me some like, here's how you can do that.

[00:30:21] And then I'm like, why is that? the name that you gave that config setting, is it like, does it match up with this other thing? And then lately four oh is like, oh, good point. You're really thinking like a data scientist now. I'm like, dude, just like, just talk to me. And,, it's funny, I was like, I was talking to my wife about that because lately she's been using Chad GPT to do, uh.

[00:30:45] Tarot card readings. She's

[00:30:47] Kalen Jordan: Oh really?

[00:30:47] David: like, she's never been like a tarot card, like astrological, girly, or whatever. But it's been, helpful for her. So she's been doing that. But like she has the same thing. Even when she's like asking questions about life and stuff, it's like, oh yeah, you're really

[00:31:06] Kalen Jordan: dude?

[00:31:08] David: the psycho fans. Like, please like me. GPT is so bad lately Anyway, like I just, I just like keep asking questions about all these, all these things before I make any changes. 'cause I just wanna make sure that I understand, what the heck is going on before it just.

[00:31:27] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, I see what you and, which can be good is like the whole like, higher level questions and answers on like, architecture and stuff. That can be, I've been starting to do a little bit more of that to, figure things out

[00:31:42] David: Do you do that in like the chat or do you do it still in VS code or whatever?

[00:31:47] Kalen Jordan: , For those types of questions, I've been starting to do 'em in chat GPTA little bit more because I'll go there more if I'm trying to figure out how to do something

[00:31:58] David: Gotcha.

[00:31:58] Kalen Jordan: like, if I'm doing it in cursor, like there's an ask mode that you can use, but I don't know, it's more like, it's more like, okay, I'm gonna start, coding if I'm in cursor.

[00:32:08] Whereas if I'm in GPT, it's like I'll kind of ask higher level questions like what, and sometimes it has better, sometimes it seems it has have better. Answers for things. Also, when you're within an existing code base, it's matching the patterns of the existing code base, which sometimes existing patterns might not be that great,

[00:32:30] David: Uh,

[00:32:30] Kalen Jordan: it fresh in GPT, it's kinda giving you more of like an idealized type of architecture.

[00:32:37] David: I see. I do wonder if I'm like, not giving it as much context as not good. Like if, if I was just asking this question from within a code base, it would know a little bit more than if I'm just describing what I see.

[00:32:50] Kalen Jordan: oh yeah,

[00:32:51] David: Uh.

[00:32:51] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Sometimes it it definitely makes a huge difference to have it, , the context. ,

[00:32:56] David: Gotta stop being scared.

[00:32:58] Kalen Jordan: What are you scared of?

[00:33:00] David: It's like a, it's just a big, like the, the DBT thing, we talked about it before. It's like hundreds of files and each file is just a SQL query and they all fit together somehow. And there's, , like references and the references depend on configuration. And so I'm just trying to figure out how all this stuff fits together.

[00:33:19] And then also how you can run this stuff without committing it every time.

[00:33:25] Kalen Jordan: Yeah,

[00:33:25] David: we're using DBT Cloud, and I, like, I don't want our existing schemas to be messed up because everyone looks at the data that generates, like all the time.

[00:33:35] So I'm just scared in general working on this project anyway.

[00:33:39] Uh, but I.

[00:33:40] Kalen Jordan: that if, if you go into cursor and start generating code, that like once you mentally make that decision, you know that you're gonna just likely to push whatever it comes up with and then it might not be it, like once you put yourself in that mindset, you're just gonna let it take the wheel and you don't wanna do that kind of a thing.

[00:34:01] David: The like, either I'll let it take the wheel and then I'll run it, and then something that I wasn't aware of will be happening now and I won't find it out until later. And it's like,

[00:34:11] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:34:12] David: it's not that big of a deal, I just have this need to know how this stuff actually works so that I can be faster at it.

[00:34:20] But yeah, maybe it's just a,

[00:34:22] Kalen Jordan: And can you run the this thing in a local separate environment or can

[00:34:29] David: that was one thing that was annoying to me is that Che GPT kept telling me that. I was probably running the CLI in hybrid mode, and it turns out that's like not a thing.

[00:34:40] Kalen Jordan: That's right.

[00:34:41] David: a lot of it was like, I'm trying to get this to upload into the cloud and actually run and build the data so that I can see it, but I don't want it to impact the existing data.

[00:34:51] So I eventually figured that out. And the problem was that I just had a missing project. Id reference somewhere in one of my configs and like, it never called that out. I was like, okay, I ran this command and this happened, but nothing happened over there. And we just kept going down this, this path that was not the right way.

[00:35:11] And maybe that would've been different if I had it in my code base instead, and it had a little bit more context. But

[00:35:17] Kalen Jordan: Right, right.

[00:35:18] David: I also feel like I don't trust Che GPT as much anymore, and I just need to, like, when you're using Cursor, is it Claude that you're interacting with?

[00:35:26] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:35:27] David: Yeah. That might be part of my problem too.

[00:35:31] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. And I think claws probably better, although I've, I, I've heard some people say that the O three, codex thing is really, is really good. I think they'll probably

[00:35:40] David: Okay.

[00:35:41] Kalen Jordan: But yeah, and then I heard a bunch of people saying Gemini 2.5 Pro was even better than Claude. So I used it for a couple days and I'm not sure I buy it.

[00:35:52] I think Claude's better, but it's just crazy how these, they go back and forth like, one week, this one's better

[00:35:58] David: know

[00:35:58] Kalen Jordan: You know? It's like,

[00:36:00] David: it's pretty awesome. And like the, the stuff you were talking about earlier with like chaining together, commands to an ai, like all this stuff just feels so raw. Like we're all figuring out the best way to work with it and. There's not really like a Oh yeah, you're supposed to do that.

[00:36:20] Like, you're supposed to ask it for directions and then you give the directions to the, some other thing so that it like, thinks the right way.

[00:36:28] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:36:28] David: Like either, either all of this stuff is gonna become the way that you're supposed to do it or it just gets optimized out and you don't have to think about it that way, which I feel like is what everyone's trying to go for.

[00:36:40] , With like the thought process stuff that I think it was oh three that was doing that.

[00:36:44] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. they're definitely gonna get smarter and smarter I think, like for a while there people were getting real fancy with like different types of crazy chaining of prompts and, and I think those ended up being over complicated. But like

[00:36:57] David: oh, okay.

[00:36:57] Kalen Jordan: I, I think in certain. I don't know.

[00:37:00] I think as you play around with the tools, you kind of get an intuition for it and

[00:37:04] David: Totally.

[00:37:04] Kalen Jordan: they change so fast. But, it's so funny what you said about the GGPT that being a SS of fan. S of fan. I've never actually said that word before.

[00:37:14] David: know. Neither am I.

[00:37:16] Kalen Jordan: uh, because dude, I randomly like asked it like a super personal question the other day.

[00:37:24] Like I was feeling very emotional and usually I don't like to ask 'cause I'm like, from a privacy perspective, I was like, I don't care. So

[00:37:32] David: Yeah,

[00:37:34] Kalen Jordan: It was like, oh, you're so brave for, like, mention, but this was before I saw all the tweets talking about it. So I wasn't thinking about that at all. I was just like, I guess I am kind of brave to like,

[00:37:46] David: yeah.

[00:37:47] Kalen Jordan: to like, to like, to like ask these questions man, it was kind of emotionally moving actually, to have

[00:37:54] David: Yeah.

[00:37:55] Kalen Jordan: conversation.

[00:37:57] Like, that was the first time I think I would say that I felt like I was emotionally moved by like a personal kind of conversation.

[00:38:06] David: Yeah, that's great. Like there's, there's a ton of value there. Like, and in, in that situation it probably was really good to like have a conversation with you in that way.

[00:38:17] Kalen Jordan: Right.

[00:38:18] David: when, when, like you're trying to go back and forth on technical stuff, it just gets in the way. But I do feel like Chad, GPT, therapy is like a thing.

[00:38:28] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:38:29] David: it seems to work really well. Like I said, my, my wife uses it a lot. It works well for her.

[00:38:36] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, dude, honestly, the biggest thing for me is the privacy thing because

[00:38:41] We all have weird thoughts that we don't really, like to say out loud or even say out loud to ourselves, and those are exactly the things that you do need to talk to somebody

[00:38:53] David: Yeah.

[00:38:54] Kalen Jordan: that if you were in therapy, those are the things you would talk about.

[00:38:58] David: Yep.

[00:38:58] Kalen Jordan: I have a really hard time, like unless they somehow implemented some super lockdown privacy thing,

[00:39:06] David: Yeah. Like private diary section.

[00:39:08] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, something. But I don't know, I'll probably just start blurring the lines more and more with that just because, don't know, it's like I worry about privacy, but then, then once I stop worrying about it, I just stop worrying about it.

[00:39:21] David: Yeah.

[00:39:22] Kalen Jordan: And it's just combining all those psychological, like literature out there. And I, I know that like I know what it's doing and it's like, it's not rocket science. It's like you have something you wanna talk about to you, it's a big thing. But in the scheme of things, there's certain patterns, there's certain questions

[00:39:39] David: Yep.

[00:39:39] Kalen Jordan: the person to think about.

[00:39:41] And it's like, I get that, I get all that, that it's just going through patterns. But, but it was like genuinely like, helpful to me.

[00:39:50] David: That's awesome.

[00:39:51] Kalen Jordan: It's so weird, dude.

[00:39:52] David: It did its job.

[00:39:54] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. What is happening with life right now, man? Actually, so on this topic, the, so this guy on Twitter, I, I didn't, I just, he showed up in the mentions and, then he said something, I can't remember even what I was talking about, but, then, , replied and then he said something else, replied. And then there was another guy on the thread.

[00:40:18] Oh, Somebody was talking about like using cha GBT for legal stuff. And, uh, anyway, he sent two replies and then a replied. And then it wasn't until the next day that I went, wait a minute. Those replies were kind of generic. So I went back and I looked, and then I go, I think this guy's an AI bot.

[00:40:37] And I replied that. And then he replied and he said that I thought he was gonna either not reply at all, or, like an auto reply or like, whatever, or defend himself or something stupid. But he's like, yeah, I use, I do, 50% of my replies is AI to like. Extend my personality , to the ai.

[00:40:59] And I was like, dude, that's cool. So like I went from hating the dude to being like, I kind of like that idea, and then like, he actually replied individually when I brought it up. So, I don't know, man. And it's not like spam in the sense, don't know, like there's a happy medium there where using AI to get business leads or get spam or like, just purely to kind of extend own consciousness a little bit

[00:41:30] David: Yeah,

[00:41:32] Kalen Jordan: Say things you would otherwise mostly say

[00:41:35] David: I like it.

[00:41:36] Kalen Jordan: cool idea.

[00:41:37] David: Everyone always talks about wanting to multiply themselves to be able to get more done and that that dude is like doing it to some degree. The getting things done is tweeting more, but it's

[00:41:48] Kalen Jordan: Right, right.

[00:41:49] David: that's the first step. I feel like

[00:41:51] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I thought that

[00:41:52] David: that's pretty interesting

[00:41:54] you had some beef with like AI replies already.

[00:41:57] Kalen Jordan: Oh yeah. I couldn't stand it. It made me so mad on the forums. out to Amal.

[00:42:04] David: Shut out.

[00:42:05] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Yeah. I can't stand it. So yeah, dude,, you had a couple things on your list, right?

[00:42:12] David: I had a list. I have a list. Yeah.

[00:42:14] Kalen Jordan: that, we gotta hit that list. I,

[00:42:16] David: One of the cool things that came out this week is, I think it came out this week, is the ability to copy and paste sections inside the theme editor. So cool. My team is like pretty excited about that.

[00:42:29] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:42:29] David: we were like going into edit the code, copy the JSON, paste it in, and , it was like that was no bueno.

[00:42:36] But now you can just do it, from the back end, which is great. I mean, we don't have to do that often, but enough where this is like super convenient to have.

[00:42:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah, I saw, I saw a little screenshot of it. It's a cool implementation because I, I guess I would've imagined if they were gonna do it, they would've done like a duplicate, you know, like you duplicate a thing and then you drag it somewhere.

[00:42:59] David: Yeah.

[00:43:00] Kalen Jordan: I realized the copy paste is even better. 'cause you can go, I guess you could, you can even go to a different page to paste it.

[00:43:09] Right. Or a

[00:43:10] David: Yeah.

[00:43:10] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:43:11] David: I Haven't tried it yet. I just sent the link to that tweet to my team. I was like's, check this out. But I imagine it's either like, it probably could just copy JSO to your clipboard with like some context for how to put it in. I don't know. I don't know how it actually works, like if it's within your session or if it's just JSO in your clipboard could work either way.

[00:43:33] I bet

[00:43:34] Kalen Jordan: Right,

[00:43:35] David: to go actually try it.

[00:43:36] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, it's a really nice little feature.

[00:43:40] David: We had this other, breakthrough this week. I know you've been working on some like NetSuite integration stuff and you, you ended up making the soap based CLI thing,

[00:43:50] Kalen Jordan: mm-hmm.

[00:43:50] David: which is pretty sweet. We had this problem, we've been trying to get, some information out of Flexport,

[00:43:58] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:58] David: They don't include information about like, what was it?

[00:44:02] Something about like the expected landing time for certain inbound shipments.

[00:44:07] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:08] David: into the weeds there. But basically the way that most people get around this is, is by having Flexport email you a list that does include all the information. And so in Google Sheets we have this,, we download the list from Flexport.

[00:44:25] Actually it downloads from your email, so in Google App scripts. Whoever made the script, you can give the script access to your email

[00:44:34] and have it find a file in one of your emails. So we got that running. And then the next step was to try and do an update to a record in NetSuite from the Google app script.

[00:44:45] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:45] David: And that seems scary, but, , basically got it working. There's like a, it, it handles OAuth and all of that directly from within the script. Took a little while to get it to work, but like it uses token based authentication along with OAuth one. , And so now we've got it. Like that was a thing where I was like, oh man, I'm gonna have to pay some more money for another.

[00:45:06] Kalen Jordan: Nice.

[00:45:08] David: I, I have, I only have like five of them, but yeah, the team figured it out in Google Sheets. So , we've entered a new era where our app, like, we just keep doing more stuff with Google App Scripts. I feel like that's the killer. For some reason we just discovered this thing and now we use it for everything, including updates to NetSuite.

[00:45:27] So I'm, really pumped about that.

[00:45:29] Kalen Jordan: And I think App Script is a great place to do like AI coding. 'cause like, I remember I did a little Google Sheets thing and it just knocked it out

[00:45:38] David: Oh yeah.

[00:45:39] Kalen Jordan: It's, I think, for those types of things that are like, you know, it's like a single script. It's doing one thing.

[00:45:45] It's not tying into some gigantic weird code base. I think AI

[00:45:48] David: Yep.

[00:45:49] Kalen Jordan: really excels at that type of code.

[00:45:52] David: It does. Like the guy who's working on this is, is good, but he, like, he's new to App Scripts. And like I went in and looked at the code and there's like all this stuff about calculating the header for the OAuth. API call, I was like,, did you do this? Or is this like AI stuff? And, and he's like, yeah, it's like AI stuff.

[00:46:11] So it knows, it knows enough about like the existing APIs in Google Sheets and just in general how to do stuff and off to the races.

[00:46:22] Kalen Jordan: dude. That's slick. , I saw, this dude, , Stewart with, uh, Revo company called Revo. He talks a lot about his AI workflows and they use Devon.

[00:46:32] David: Okay.

[00:46:33] Kalen Jordan: For, for their stuff. And, they haven't really I tried Devon out really, briefly 'cause this co the company I'm working for had a license it's, it's kind of a different model.

[00:46:44] Like you don't so much work in your editor as you, you tell it stuff and then it goes off and creates a pr, uh,

[00:46:53] David: Like from a chat or something.

[00:46:55] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, from a chat or from Slack, or you can chat with it in a web interface. And, so it, it was weird. It's like, it kind of works more independently, but then I realized after trying to get it set up and it wasn't working that great, that like, when you set it up, you really, like, you can give it unit tests, you can give it a linter, you can give it even like integration tests. And so like, if you instrument it really well, like some of the stuff Stewart has tweeted is like nuts. Like The features that it just creates all on its own and test them and, and everything. but they put a lot of effort into like how they've got this whole AI engine like configured it's funny, I was thinking to myself like, he was saying that like they're getting, I don't know, like 20 x as productive, like, like something crazy.

[00:47:44] David: Dang.

[00:47:44] Kalen Jordan: just as I was feeling good about my like two, three x improvement, I was like, oh, this is garbage. And I was thinking to myself like, are they gonna just pack their app with features?

[00:47:54] Like, that seems, it seems like it would almost become feature overkill or something like that. I saw he tweeted the other day that they have a new product that's gonna launch in, I guess like in the summer. He said it's like it's in a category that's like, kind of a VC-backed, like the incumbent is like one of these big VC-backed companies. And he said that it's like two years of, engineering work compressed into like 60 days. So

[00:48:24] David: all Devin.

[00:48:26] Kalen Jordan: yeah. So I was like whole, like, so it kind of made sense to me that like that's where all their productivity gains could be going into new product and that it could, like, they could launch it after 60 days.

[00:48:39] Being , at having like a level of feature completeness that could be like totally insane. , So I'm, I can't wait to see what, like, what they

[00:48:50] David: That sounds awesome. Yeah, I would love to know more about like, how they set up the, the guardrails for letting it just go. And I guess a lot of it is like tests, but maybe you can also have it help you build the tests. Like if it's a brand new thing, , they must have put work into what the tests look like.

[00:49:10] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Like you can have it, it can help you build the tests. And then it's just a matter of I don't know, just like keeping the tests clean and,

[00:49:18] David: Yeah.

[00:49:19] Kalen Jordan: keeping, you know, refactoring things. and Then like even the prompts, like he posted a couple of his prompts that he uses and they're pretty detailed and like, and one of the things I notice in there is that like, there's certain code that it'll tell 'em to ignore, like not break certain code.

[00:49:34] And,

[00:49:35] David: Uh,

[00:49:36] Kalen Jordan: like as the code base grows, like doing something kinda like that app script thing, like at the one end of the spectrum, if you're just doing a single script, it like nails it and it, and then we've got a few files. It does a pretty good job when you have a bigger code base, it doesn't do a great job of remembering all the context. like in cursor, there's like rules. You can create rules so it knows what to do, certain files. And then I guess Devin probably has its own way of. Of knowing the context. And I have a feeling it, it's better at knowing the full context. Like I wouldn't be surprised if it has it the whole

[00:50:12] David: yeah,

[00:50:12] Kalen Jordan: in some way 'cause it's

[00:50:13] David: I

[00:50:14] Kalen Jordan: expensive.

[00:50:15] David: totally.

[00:50:16] Kalen Jordan: that's the

[00:50:17] David: There's gotta be some sort of indexing step

[00:50:20] that I don't understand.

[00:50:21] Kalen Jordan: it gets gnarly to get it to like, remember things and follow existing patterns and

[00:50:27] David: Right.

[00:50:28] Kalen Jordan: do stupid stuff. yeah, , He should give like a whole frigging webinar on whatever he's doing. 'cause it's like, it's

[00:50:36] David: I wonder if there'll be a

[00:50:37] Kalen Jordan: nuts

[00:50:38] David: additions. We'll have to like bombard him with questions.

[00:50:41] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:50:42] David: Yeah,

[00:50:43] Kalen Jordan: I'd, I'd imagine. I hope, I hope he is man. I've never, I haven't had a chance to meet him yet. But yeah, it's really, it's really gnarly.

[00:50:52] David: Dude. One thing I'm super excited about, and it has nothing to do with Shopify or anything, is . I think I'm gonna replace all of our wifi equipment across all of our stores and distribution center

[00:51:07] Some like new ubiquity equipment. I'm so excited. We're using Cisco Meraki and the licenses alone to renew are gonna cost more than just buying all this new equipment.

[00:51:20] Kalen Jordan: Oh,

[00:51:21] David: So I get to like start working on this and I'm super pumped 'cause I love the ubiquity. I don't know if you, if you ever like get into the wifi nerd stuff,

[00:51:31] Kalen Jordan: dude, I'm horrible. You talk about being afraid of working on stuff. I'm terrified of anything network related.

[00:51:40] David: gotcha. This is gonna be cool. Like you, I'll be able to access any of the networks from.

[00:51:47] And all of the software runs on one of the firewalls that's like at the distribution center. So it's like no subscription, just running. It feels like the future.

[00:51:57] Kalen Jordan: dude, that's awesome. So it's like it's better than regular wifi setups where you just have access to a whole bunch of more stuff centrally.

[00:52:07] David: Yeah, because it, like in Meraki, there's like, the software is run by Cisco and it, like all of them call back to this service,

[00:52:15] Kalen Jordan: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:16] David: ubiquity figuring it out where it's just running on their hardware, like the hardware that you bought and then exposing itself so you can log into it from anywhere and then see the entire network across like every store, HQ and the distribution center.

[00:52:32] You can like monitor it all without any subscription costs. Which is crazy cost savings and it like, it looks really cool.

[00:52:41] Kalen Jordan: Nice. Like the interface looks cool or

[00:52:44] David: Yeah,

[00:52:46] Kalen Jordan: nice.

[00:52:46] David: can see like the ISP that each one is using. I don't know, it's just, it's fun to like upgrade to the new shiny thing even though it's cheaper

[00:52:55] Kalen Jordan: That's

[00:52:56] David: and uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to doing that.

[00:52:59] Kalen Jordan: that's cool. Do you like have to get involved with like, wifi situations at the different stores? Like do they go,

[00:53:06] David: Yeah.

[00:53:07] Kalen Jordan: working. Can you look into it? Or something like that?

[00:53:10] David: Yeah. Our IT vendor helps us out a lot there, but like today I was trying to find out if I can get a warranty replacement for one of our, point of sale charging stands. 'cause they broke one of the connectors. So there, like, there's always something

[00:53:26] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:53:27] David: going on at the stores. Printer issues.

[00:53:30] Kalen Jordan: right,

[00:53:31] David: It's good times.

[00:53:32] Kalen Jordan: That's brutal. Printer issues. yeah, I was just imagining like, 'cause you know, I'm doing this artwork on GBTI was just imagining when you can 3D print a little like

[00:53:42] David: Oh,

[00:53:43] Kalen Jordan: game character. That's gonna be so cool.

[00:53:46] David: do you have a 3D printer?

[00:53:48] Kalen Jordan: I don't, I gotta get one.

[00:53:50] David: Yeah, me too. I looked at 'em a little bit. They're still kind of expensive.

[00:53:54] Kalen Jordan: they can probably generate the bottles. I'd imagine

[00:53:57] David: Oh, totally.

[00:53:59] Kalen Jordan: yeah. Oh, cool. Wow.

[00:54:00] David: Yeah. Like there's some that people made that are like purpose built for generating 3D models for printing.

[00:54:08] Kalen Jordan: Oh, nice,

[00:54:10] David: it's getting weird.

[00:54:11] Kalen Jordan: It's getting weird, man. Dude, I got a, a client that, had paid for like 10 hours and had a few hours left with, or like seven hours left and they hit me up. They wanna put some little mini games, like retro games, like Pacman or something like that on their site and like, I've been trying to get this going.

[00:54:33] Like I pitched the idea a couple places I've been, but like the fact that somebody's gonna pay me to do a game on their site crazy.

[00:54:47] David: Did you make that suggestion to them that

[00:54:49] Kalen Jordan: No,

[00:54:49] David: you're like, Hey, I got hours left over. Can I just make some games?

[00:54:52] Kalen Jordan: no. I had made the suggestion to a couple other clients. ' cause I was like, I, this is such a fun idea. Like, I wish I want to, you know, like, let's put it on a popup, you know, let's put a little mini

[00:55:03] David: Yeah.

[00:55:04] Kalen Jordan: And I got a couple people that were like, kind of interested, but then it like never went anywhere, or I just haven't heard back, or they just never replied.

[00:55:11] And then this guy just happened to reach out and about it. And

[00:55:16] David: Oh, like out of the blue. He didn't know you were doing that stuff.

[00:55:19] Kalen Jordan: think so. I don't know, I don't know if he saw those posts or not, but he wanted, he has this site that's like, kind of this cool retro type of a site. he Wants to embed like a winamp like a 90 style win amp thing and hook it into like meta objects for the playlist,

[00:55:39] David: Oh, sweet.

[00:55:41] Kalen Jordan: And then he wants to do like, a little, some games too, and have like high scores that are tied to meta fields and stuff.

[00:55:49] David: Well, there you go. You had your trial run building this cool ass talking shop. Do dev website.

[00:55:55] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, did. That's pretty cool, man. Like,, you know, 'cause like us, like we're in web development, we know we're not gonna ever work on game development. Like game development is like, that's where all the

[00:56:08] David: Very different.

[00:56:09] Kalen Jordan: are. Like, it's a whole different thing, you know, would we love to be building games, obviously, just like did, wasn't in the cards for us, you know, but like to all of a sudden be able to be getting paid to do a game, it's like fucking crazy.

[00:56:27] David: Yeah. And we're at

[00:56:29] Kalen Jordan: like,

[00:56:30] David: a point where like it's accessible too.

[00:56:32] Kalen Jordan: right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:35] David: Oh, I need to set up an auto clicker on this click thing on the website.

[00:56:41] Kalen Jordan: Oh yeah, I gotta hook it into a server side thing 'cause it's just local storage right

[00:56:48] David: Yeah.

[00:56:49] Kalen Jordan: But, um, but I was thinking once I do that, dude, like, somebody like, probably no one's gonna care about it, but if anybody did care about it, they'd probably start hammering the server with a bot or something like that.

[00:57:02] David: Oh yeah, it would be me. I'm just gonna add a JavaScript, uh, auto click on this thing.

[00:57:08] Kalen Jordan: my CloudFlare bill's gonna go through the roof. It's gonna be like 89 cents. It's gonna be horrible.

[00:57:18] David: Yeah. Made it through the 1 million free events.

[00:57:23] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Dude, I love CloudFlare so much.

[00:57:27] David: Oh, me too.

[00:57:28] Kalen Jordan: finally started using it after you told me about it.

[00:57:31] David: Heck yeah. Is that where talking shop is

[00:57:34] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah.

[00:57:34] David: nice?

[00:57:35] Kalen Jordan: to it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:38] David: It's just so nice. Like everything just fits together so easily. I.

[00:57:42] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, dude, it's like I never used AWS or Google Cloud. Like I just, I never needed to. And anytime

[00:57:49] David: Yeah.

[00:57:50] Kalen Jordan: there for anything at all, like the navigation is so horrendously complicated, the pricing is like, everything is crazy. like with CloudFlare, like for example, I needed to upload some images.

[00:58:01] So I was like, Hey, help me upload images. And then it's, it used like an R two storage bucket,

[00:58:07] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:07] Kalen Jordan: dealt with. Like I, whenever I've needed to do files, I'm just dealing with a file system. Like I've never had to deal with the buckets

[00:58:14] David: Like S3? Yeah.

[00:58:16] Kalen Jordan: It just worked. Like not only is the interface pretty straightforward, you don't have nine levels of navigation at least, but like, it just spun it up.

[00:58:25] You know, the CLI is great for creating things. The code just worked. I got buckets. I've used a couple of the things now in CloudFlare, like the, AI thing and the workers and, you know,

[00:58:39] David: Yeah. Their docs are great too. They just like give you the example and then boom, you're off and making stuff.

[00:58:45] Kalen Jordan: it's like a simplified, cleaner way, cheaper version of AWS that does, like, least for the stuff I need to do. It does like everything you need and,

[00:58:55] David: Yeah.

[00:58:56] Got the database there. That's robust enough.

[00:58:59] Kalen Jordan: Oh, dude. And D one, like, okay, so D one is like seq D is sequel light,

[00:59:06] David: Yeah.

[00:59:07] Kalen Jordan: And SQL Light. I don't know how this, but like, you can't, like, I don't know how they did it, but the whole thing with an actual SQL light, you can never u actually use SQL L in a production environment because it's just like it, you know, but they, whatever they did, to like emulate it or whatever, so that it does scale is like

[00:59:26] David: Yeah,

[00:59:27] Kalen Jordan: so

[00:59:28] David: it.

[00:59:29] Kalen Jordan: And then you're just dealing with basic SQL and it's like, it's awesome. Like, even like, okay, I was using Elle and they'll let you set up a Postgres database and it has so much weird stuff, dude. It has like, uh. Edge stuff that you have to configure, and then the edge thing didn't work quite right, and you can adjust the tier of your database or whatever.

[00:59:55] And if you lower it, it

[00:59:56] David: Oh yeah.

[00:59:57] Kalen Jordan: but then you start getting errors that the pool isn't available, you know, and I wasn't getting a lot of traffic. There wasn't barely any traffic at all, but I was getting these errors. The database pool is not whatever dude. It's so complicated. and D one is just, it just works.

[01:00:12] It's

[01:00:13] David: Yeah, it just works. They tell you the API to do stuff at it, and then it just goes there.

[01:00:20] I have a D one database set up where the index on the entire table is emojis. It just works.

[01:00:31] Kalen Jordan: Nice. And I have to imagine it scales like probably gloriously. I mean, it's CloudFlare, I mean it's gotta scale really well

[01:00:41] David: Yeah. Yeah. I put some stuff there and it's just sitting there and I, every once in a while I'm like, I wonder if that still works. Yep. Still working and still really fast.

[01:00:50] Kalen Jordan: yeah, that surprised me too. How stuff will just still work. Cause like, I don't know, when I was doing something with PHP on a server somewhere, like it would just find a way to break if you didn't look at it for a

[01:01:01] David: Yeah. Ran out of memory Server had to restart your configuration's gone.

[01:01:06] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[01:01:07] David: it's just all there.

[01:01:08] Kalen Jordan: All these like node based packages, which sometimes there's some magic to 'em and sometimes they don't do weird stuff. You don't, and you get you, you scratch your head. And sometimes they just work perfectly. But like once they're up on, like, for sale, CloudFlare, like, they just frigging work.

[01:01:25] they just work like forever.

[01:01:28] David: future's awesome, dude.

[01:01:30] Kalen Jordan: yeah. It's cool. Ah, good stuff man. Good stuff.

[01:01:37] David: stuff.

[01:01:39] ​