[00:00:00] I normally don't like that approach of like competitor research to find an app idea. I kind of just normally wait until something kind of just inspires me. Mm-hmm. But because it, like the idea that it could do it all for me kind of made it like, okay, that could work. If it could spit something out, and then I could go, oh yeah, I like that idea.

[00:01:10] Kalen Jordan: Dude. Okay. So this is ridiculous, dude. Your levels of wholesomeness just keep skyrocketing. Your grandma runs a quaint B& B. You live 30 minutes from where you grew up in the Midwest. You shovel snow. You have snow fights with your kids. Gosh.

[00:01:33] David: Sorry dude. Just living

[00:01:35] Kalen Jordan: Can't you be a little, a little more, uh, what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:01:40] Kalen Jordan: A little more screwed up like me? Maybe,

[00:01:44] David: I should, maybe I should try that.

[00:01:45] Kalen Jordan: throw some divorce into the family tree? Or mix it up a little bit?

[00:01:53] David: I'm a pretty lucky individual. I will say got some

[00:01:56] David: reward winning breakfast from the, onsite chef, my father in law. Next

[00:02:06] David: time

[00:02:09] Kalen Jordan: That's too much. That's crazy. What did,

[00:02:13] David: you're in California, you got to come up here. It's in, uh, it's in wine country in and

[00:02:17] David: they, uh,

[00:02:18] Kalen Jordan: I'm, I'm there. I'm

[00:02:20] David: some beautiful property, all the wine, good times.

[00:02:26] Kalen Jordan: Dude. Next time my wife says like, Hey, let's go to LA to visit our family or let's go to California to visit our family. I'll be like, Let's go to this place in California and not visit our family. It'll be awesome. Ha ha

[00:02:42] David: And well, you'll have breakfast at 9. 00 AM. Like before my wife and I had our first kid, we decided like, Oh, I guess our lives are over. We got to do something real quick. So we went to,

[00:02:52] David: uh, To Europe and we went to a bed and breakfast in Rome and

[00:02:58] David: it was not the same for breakfast I had like she made me a Like a hot dog bun with some salami in it and

[00:03:08] David: a hard boiled egg Yeah,

[00:03:18] Kalen Jordan: Little slice of bread, like

[00:03:20] David: yeah, just give me a piece of raw bread. I'll be good

[00:03:25] Kalen Jordan: Just four types of different cheese on a platter. Type of cheese you've never had before in your life.

[00:03:37] David: What you

[00:03:37] Kalen Jordan: to have this did. I Jerry rigged a, uh, thing for, you know, how like in church, like they'll have a mic that's like connected to a thing that's in front of their face, like the pastor will like a, you know, like a thing, like a headset.

[00:03:55] Kalen Jordan: So I was, What's that, a boy, a boy band? Yeah, yeah, something like that. So I was trying to find something like that. There's a cup because I,

[00:04:05] David: your

[00:04:05] David: podcast, uh,

[00:04:07] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Cause I, I have like a lapel mic, but you know, you put it on your shirt and then depending on I'm moving my head all the time. So I Jerry rigged a pencil to my hat.

[00:04:20] Kalen Jordan: And I have the lapel mic at the end of the pencil. So

[00:04:25] David: it

[00:04:25] David: sounded great so far. I guess

[00:04:27] David: we'll see if the pencil falls out. Don't move your head too much. No head banging.

[00:04:31] Kalen Jordan: Well, the challenge is, I have my hat strapped on pretty tight, so, I'm, I'm losing,

[00:04:40] Kalen Jordan: I'm losing blood pressure as we speak, so.

[00:04:44] David: I'm, I'm going to have to like, figure out how to contact your family to check on you out in the

[00:04:49] David: garage.

[00:04:50] Kalen Jordan: to, I'm going to loosen this up by one strap. This is, this is out of control. I was like when I had it one buckle, left, it was the pencil. Was it a little loose? I was like, let me tighten this up. But God, that was, that was starting to stress me

[00:05:06] David: A little blood flow situation.

[00:05:10] Kalen Jordan: A little blood flow condition. Um, yeah, dude. Well, happy Friday.

[00:05:19] David: Happy Friday.

[00:05:21] Kalen Jordan: Ah,

[00:05:22] David: Good times.

[00:05:24] Kalen Jordan: I was a little stressed out and, cause they were kind of disappointed about some stuff and uh, so then I, I sent them a, an email afterwards saying, you know. Like, we need to reset expectations or something. And they're like, oh no, no, it's cool. We're, like, things are And now every, every time they email me, like today, it was like, hey, happy Friday!

[00:05:46] Kalen Jordan: In the email. I was like, that's cool. I Sometimes you just got to be a little real with people and then they're like, oh, guess I'm being a an asshole. I need to adjust myself a little bit.

[00:05:58] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, or, you know, or I, I'm just probably oversensitive. But, I don't know. It's okay to be sensitive.

[00:06:06] Kalen Jordan: It's okay to be sensitive. That's what my mommy always told me. Ha ha ha.

[00:06:10] David: She was right.

[00:06:12] Kalen Jordan: she,

[00:06:15] David: My

[00:06:15] David: boy is so sensitive and it's great. He can tell me how he's feeling and that's a skill dude. Oh,

[00:06:23] Kalen Jordan: true. Yeah. To be able to, to kind of articulate how you're feeling and, and stuff like that. Yeah. I think my son is less, maybe a little bit less sensitive than my girls, which probably makes sense. Started taking him to jiu jitsu classes recently. Which is, he's totally, yeah, he's totally loving it.

[00:06:49] David: That's cool. I took

[00:06:50] David: a jujitsu class and in college

[00:06:53] David: and with my, my roommate and, , well, I'll never forget the teacher always had this saying of, um, like you'd have to do the judo rolls and, uh, he would put something in, uh, In front of you, and he would just say that it's a psychological barrier. And one day he made us doodle roll over him and

[00:07:14] David: he said, I am a psychological barrier.

[00:07:19] Kalen Jordan: Okay,

[00:07:20] David: That's like the running joke.

[00:07:26] Kalen Jordan: And then you rolled over him and crushed his larynx. And

[00:07:29] David: yeah. He doesn't do that class

[00:07:32] Kalen Jordan: Dang, dude. I mean, you're not a small guy. I mean, you've got some heft, you've got some strength to you. So

[00:07:40] David: Yeah. Well, I, I overcame the psychological barrier. It was fine. Yeah. Nobody got crushed.

[00:07:50] Kalen Jordan: like you could do some damage if you wanted to. Like

[00:07:52] David: Oh, definitely.

[00:07:54] Kalen Jordan: if you got out of that wholesome zone that you stay in, you got a little riled up. You could probably hurt some people. You could probably generate a

[00:08:05] David: that doesn't happen very often. Depends on

[00:08:08] David: how late it is at the wedding or whatever.

[00:08:11] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I thought you were going to say how late it is at the horse tracks.

[00:08:17] David: I've never been to the horse track. Maybe I should avoid it.

[00:08:21] Kalen Jordan: Dude, I've never been to the horse tracks either. Like, I thought that was something that like stopped happening in the 50s, kind of.

[00:08:28] David: Yeah,

[00:08:28] Kalen Jordan: though like, like I see them around. Yeah, like one day I'm talking to my brother. My brother, he sort of has a sense of humor. Some bad habits, you know, smoking and various other things.

[00:08:40] Kalen Jordan: And, you know, one day I was talking to him and he's like, yeah, the horse tracks. And I was just like, Oh God, one more thing to

[00:08:51] David: still race horses.

[00:08:53] Kalen Jordan: list. Yeah. Um, but, um, Oh,

[00:08:56] David: They like knocking each other off or what? That'd be cool. They should do that still.

[00:09:02] Kalen Jordan: horses.

[00:09:02] David: do somewhere. Like the, the giant poles that you see like on Game of Thrones.

[00:09:11] Kalen Jordan: Dude, I still haven't watched Game of Thrones. I,

[00:09:14] David: It's fine. Don't watch it.

[00:09:16] Kalen Jordan: um, I was wanting to, but then I was like, ah, it's kind of old now. And it's like, although it's not that old, but I, I don't know.

[00:09:25] David: You know, it'd be hilarious as if you like live tweeted your experience. It's like, where have you been for the last

[00:09:32] Kalen Jordan: yeah.

[00:09:33] David: years?

[00:09:35] Kalen Jordan: Everybody thinks I just time warped. Talk about it like it's brand new. But anyway, what

[00:09:43] David: So the boy is judo rolling now, huh?

[00:09:45] Kalen Jordan: Judo roll. Yeah. Yeah. They start him out nice and gradual. So they're, um,

[00:09:50] David: How old is he?

[00:09:52] Kalen Jordan: he's seven. He's seven. So they, they don't have you get right in there and start, you know, fighting, you know, full blast.

[00:10:00] Kalen Jordan: You're just doing stretches and exercises and little games and chasing games and stuff. So he's having a blast,

[00:10:08] David: Cool. Shopify.

[00:10:11] Kalen Jordan: yeah. So. What's up with the Shopify stuff, man.

[00:10:19] David: I've been working on exchanges lately. That's been my throne and my thorn in my side these last couple of

[00:10:28] Kalen Jordan: Oh, okay.

[00:10:30] David: you done anything with exchanges?

[00:10:32] Kalen Jordan: Uh, no, I, you know, I just actually re listened back to the podcast we recorded, I guess a couple of weeks ago now, number, I don't know, eight maybe. And you were talking about the exchanges and I like understood it more completely listening back to it.

[00:10:48] David: Gotcha.

[00:10:49] Kalen Jordan: think I've just peeked at the APIs a little bit, but, um, what, what's the

[00:10:54] David: The API has got some shenanigans, man.

[00:10:57] David: So we, Shopify has had this ability to create an exchange in. The point of sale for like quite a while.

[00:11:06] Kalen Jordan: Right.

[00:11:07] David: We were trying to get access to what's going on there. So like when someone clicks exchange, like edits the original order and Shopify and add some stuff on.

[00:11:17] David: And we were trying to figure out, okay, how, how do we know which things were added and removed on this order? And they told us about this, exchange V2 S API. Have you looked at that?

[00:11:29] Kalen Jordan: I don't know.

[00:11:31] David: It's like not. Documented I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it, but it was like, it was in a word doc that was looking at all the, all the things. So that is kind of what we thought. Was going to be how online store exchanges worked. We're working with loop on that,

[00:11:48] David: and then, um. So they did an exchange for us, and we were testing it out and seeing how it looked in the API, and it just did not show up in this other. Exchange v2's, endpoint. So trying to figure out what's going on there.

[00:12:01] David: Turns out there's actually a different way that you're supposed to do exchanges on online store orders that uses the return API. Like, there's certain things you can do with the return API to create an exchange, and it's different than the way that you create or look at exchanges from a point of sale. And it's hard to figure out from Shopify and also from Luke. Like what is the difference between these two things? Why does one not show up in the other? what's going on here? They call the exchange B2 API, better exchanges, air quotes. so I feel like that's. Where things are supposed to go, but it's not there yet.

[00:12:39] David: And so it's very confusing. I'm like trying to figure out what to do to get this all working within the next couple of weeks.

[00:12:46] Kalen Jordan: That's weird. You're at like the bleeding edge of, uh, of the,

[00:12:53] David: I guess I didn't think I was. Cause the the point of sale has been doing exchanges for like a year now. but Yeah, I guess there's some stuff that's not figured out here yet.

[00:13:03] Kalen Jordan: Some things just don't make sense. I mean, there's gotta be some reason for that, like, fork in the road between those two APIs. But it's hard to imagine what it is. Like, you get that ironed out for exchanges. Like, why can't you just plug the online orders into it?

[00:13:21] David: yeah, it seems like they're trying to come up with like an exchange primitive so that like there is an exchange API That's that exists somewhere and maybe at

[00:13:29] David: that point. It'll all be unified, but it's not yet So we're trying to work around that

[00:13:36] Kalen Jordan: Ah, that's annoying.

[00:13:38] David: free

[00:13:39] Kalen Jordan: Shenanigans. I ran across some shenanigans today. When an app doesn't have a free dev plan in a dev store, those are, that's shenanigans.

[00:13:49] David: dev plan on a devs. Oh,

[00:13:52] Kalen Jordan: yeah, like when you can't install an app in a dev store, just use it, you know. That's shenanigans.

[00:13:58] David: up to the app or is that up to Shopify?

[00:14:01] Kalen Jordan: So, it's up to the app, like, they can detect your store type and just kind of like let you use it. And then also, when you do a chart, like a billing charge, you can do it. Like you can do it as a test charge. Like when I set up my app, it just happened. I don't know how I did it.

[00:14:20] Kalen Jordan: It just was the way it worked by default where either it was either using mantle or something, but it just, , when you go into, , prove a charge, there's just like a yellow box that says this charge is just a test charge. You're not going to actually be charged. And then it puts it through so that if like there's certain things on the highest, And then you can just pick any tier you want and it will put through a fake charge.

[00:14:47] Kalen Jordan: And I've been testing like a million bundle apps recently. And most of them have, most of them like, that are like, nice apps, they have that test charge for dev stores. But this one called Wide Bundles didn't have it. which There's this dude that I see on Twitter that's like some kind of a famous Shopify

[00:15:13] David: it sounds familiar shenanigans.

[00:15:16] Kalen Jordan: That um, I think it's his app. And um, I don't know why it didn't have a dev thing. So I'm kind of, I'm calling shenanigans on that.

[00:15:29] David: Usually when I see that on an app, I reach out to the support and I'm like, please, sir, can I have everything in my dev store for this?

[00:15:37] Kalen Jordan: Right, right.

[00:15:38] David: I might end up paying you if it works.

[00:15:41] Kalen Jordan: Right. Yeah, I

[00:15:42] David: And usually they can do something on their end, but

[00:15:46] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, it's so much easier when you can just get in there and start messing around

[00:15:50] David: just, just let me not have to talk to anyone.

[00:15:54] David: Just, Just let me get in. there.

[00:15:56] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Bundle apps are so weird, man. There's so many that like they all do things slightly differently and they have slightly different feature sets.

[00:16:06] Kalen Jordan: I guess probably most apps are like that. But bundles are complicated and um. So I've just been trying a million different apps. This one app that we were trying had some roadblocks, it looks like. So I'm looking at other apps. Anyways, I'm kind of sick of the whole bundle

[00:16:25] David: Isn't a, but I feel like bundles has like a, is that an API now somehow said, are they all interacting with that? But like everything on top of that is totally different.

[00:16:35] Kalen Jordan: That's a good question. I haven't looked at the bundles API. I'm thinking I think it might be just relevant to like the native Shopify bundles, which are like fixed bundles, predefined bundles versus like what I need to do is a mix and match bundle where you add different things into the bundle.

[00:16:58] Kalen Jordan: You've got different steps to pick different groups of products and then different pricing and stuff like that for each of those.

[00:17:05] David: Got it.

[00:17:05] Kalen Jordan: So it's kind of gnarly. I think they mostly use cart, the cart transform API.

[00:17:11] David: At

[00:17:11] Kalen Jordan: um, slap it all together.

[00:17:13] David: The last minute,

[00:17:15] David: pull it all in, like make a new, like a, is it like a short lived product kind of thing? Like a custom line item or something?

[00:17:23] Kalen Jordan: So some of them create a separate product that kind of houses the bundle and then it has like meta fields, behind the scenes, linking stuff to it. , and then others will have, like a unique app specific URL that's not like a product page URL. And so they probably have their own database that's has those entities in it.

[00:17:49] David: I see.

[00:17:50] Kalen Jordan: stuff. So they all do it different ways. It's kind of crazy and now I'm thinking maybe I should just create an app, just write it myself.

[00:17:59] David: Just do it myself.

[00:18:02] Kalen Jordan: yeah, that's probably not a

[00:18:03] David: That'd be cool. I mean, you got a good reason to do it and then package that bad boy up and throw it in the mix.

[00:18:09] Kalen Jordan: Package it up. Sell it. Get rich. Um, yeah.

[00:18:16] David: What would your bundle app be called?

[00:18:19] Kalen Jordan: Call it, uh, Super Bundles.

[00:18:22] David: You got to make sure it's, not too descriptive

[00:18:25] Kalen Jordan: Oh,

[00:18:25] David: and, uh,

[00:18:29] Kalen Jordan: We'll call it Kalen's Price Tiered Bundles. Final.

[00:18:35] David: not

[00:18:35] David: allowed.

[00:18:36] Kalen Jordan: seeing all this madness with the app names?

[00:18:40] David: Yeah. Now everybody's got the like, a colon. I'm, I feel a little lost in this thing, but I guess something's happening there.

[00:18:50] Kalen Jordan: Dudes have had apps for like 10 years and they're like, you need to change your app name. It's too generic.

[00:18:56] David: Yeah. The drop in blog. That's crazy.

[00:18:58] Kalen Jordan: in blog. I was like that. That's a kind of a unique name. I mean, I saw it. I was like, that doesn't feel generic. I guess in a sense it is kind of generic. Um,

[00:19:10] David: checkout blocks is generic kind of

[00:19:14] David: is

[00:19:15] Kalen Jordan: is extremely generic.

[00:19:17] Kalen Jordan: It's like so generic that it's not generic. It's like so extremely generic. I mean, I get it. Like, cause there are a lot of apps that have the same name. ,

[00:19:28] David: totally, you don't want your app store to just be a bunch of stuff like that, but at the same time, , like random brand names, I mean, I guess as I think about like the bigger apps, Klaviyo, Klaviyo, whatever, however you say it, that's a real brand name

[00:19:43] David: and so maybe in the absolute be like Klaviyo colon. Marketing emails or something. I don't know, but like what are you supposed to do there? Just come up with a like Henry Henry, the blog maker, what is the, uh, what are they looking for there? But yeah, I also saw that Toby tweeted about it. So maybe they're doing something about that.

[00:20:10] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, they, yeah, they probably just Some person got told to go enforce some stuff, and then they ran a bunch of queries, blasted a bunch of people, and now they're dealing with it. but like this one dude, he had like a Polish app for some specific thing, and his was the first one with that name. It's like some Polish word and then now there's like six people that have copied him and his is built for Shopify and everything.

[00:20:39] Kalen Jordan: And so then he got a notice to change the name. It's like such a slap in the face. It's horrible. Yeah. It sucks so much. But. I mean, I don't know. If you have a good, solid app, track record, then the name doesn't matter that much. Because you've got the ratings, you've got the user base, like, it probably doesn't matter that much.

[00:21:06] Kalen Jordan: But it probably feels pretty annoying, I

[00:21:10] David: Yeah. I mean, it's super important from like a, when people are searching for what they need, I'm guessing a large portion of it is based on the title of your app. And so it makes sense to try and. At least to some degree, describe what it is that your app does

[00:21:25] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:21:26] David: to a large degree. I'm sure.

[00:21:28] Kalen Jordan: I still, I still think they need to have a place to put use cases for your app, a place to put Q and a, and then you just have this gigantic amount of content specific to your app, what it does, what it doesn't do, you know, and

[00:21:43] David: Yeah, that would be great. And a requirement to have screenshots of the app, like a lot of apps, that all of the images are

[00:21:54] David: like, what, what it lets you do on the front end, or just like some

[00:21:57] David: marketing. Like icon talking about what it

[00:22:01] David: does, but I want to know, like, before I install this thing, Can you just tell me whether or not you use Polaris and, uh, like, is this thing, does it fit together?

[00:22:13] Kalen Jordan: Yep.

[00:22:14] David: to your

[00:22:14] David: point, a lot of them have free installs on like trying it out,

[00:22:19] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, dude. How about when you install an app and then it has like whatever the previous version of Polaris was it was before my time, but it's like a different style, but it's what used to be the native Polaris style.

[00:22:33] David: like the green buttons.

[00:22:35] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. So you're like, okay, wait, this used to be very highly native and is kind of still very native, but not really.

[00:22:44] David: Yeah.

[00:22:45] Kalen Jordan: That's Got some version numbers to update somewhere in your code base.

[00:22:49] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Um,

[00:22:52] David: work than that.

[00:22:53] Kalen Jordan: yeah, I'm sure it's a buttload of work. I use deep research to try to tell me, some B2B app opportunities.

[00:23:02] David: Oh, tell me about that. How do you like, so you go in there and you're like, spend a day doing this.

[00:23:10] Kalen Jordan: yeah, you just, prompt it. I think it seems like it pretty much always asks you some clarifying questions, which is pretty cool.

[00:23:17] David: is cool.

[00:23:17] Kalen Jordan: do you want me to limit this to the U. S. or to our global? Do you want to look at feedback in the last, in a certain time range, like the last year or six months?

[00:23:26] Kalen Jordan: I was like, yeah, that sounds good. and do you want like specific app categories or something? I don't know. It had a couple of good questions I

[00:23:34] David: Yeah, those are great questions.

[00:23:35] Kalen Jordan: yeah, it had good questions. And then it went off and it was like, I was basically asking it like to find negative feedback for B2B apps in the Shopify app store so that it could like tell me some good pain points to try to fix.

[00:23:50] Kalen Jordan: And it, it seemed pretty cool. Like it was like, okay, I'm doing this and then it shows you all the stuff it's searching and it's like, okay, actually I'm going to try this instead. I'm going to try searching for some specific blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, this is cool. And then, um, Um, it went off and it did a bunch of stuff and then it came back with, like it definitely found some unique negative feedback where it was like, okay, uh, there's a lot of UX issues with, B2B apps.

[00:24:21] Kalen Jordan: And some of them don't do like pricing, tiered pricing. They don't do customer approvals. But then I was like, Okay, wait, I need to know, like, I realized that these certain apps have negative, like the bold app had like a bunch of negative feedback. But then I was like, what I need to know is if there's already another app that does those things well, then like, I need to know if there are negative things that aren't resolved by other apps type, you know what

[00:24:54] David: Like, is there actually an opportunity?

[00:24:56] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And then that, that's where I got like, kind of stuck in prompt hell, and then it was like not, and, and you can ask follow-up questions afterwards. And I guess it's supposed to have like some good context window on it, but it didn't seem to do that good of a job with the follow-up questions.

[00:25:14] Kalen Jordan: Like, I was

[00:25:15] David: How do you know when it's done?

[00:25:18] Kalen Jordan: I actually just left the window open and then I did some other stuff I think it could take like 10 minutes or something. But I came back after like 20 minutes and it was, it was done. But I got to get my money's worth before I was downgrading back to the regular

[00:25:33] David: You went up to the 200

[00:25:35] David: level.

[00:25:36] Kalen Jordan: I think you have to, for the deep research. I was like, well, shoot, if it gives me a golden opportunity, then it's worth it.

[00:25:44] David: Yeah,

[00:25:45] Kalen Jordan: But, um,

[00:25:46] David: interesting. That's like the, that's like the end game, like give something a task and it'll come back to me when it's done. And like, I don't have to spend too much time in the interface for this thing.

[00:26:04] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I might need to try some different prompts, but, that would be cool if it could, like, cause when it said registration, I was like, cause I've been working on some custom registration flows. I was like, Oh, that could be a cool thing to do. Like some, an app that helps with registration approvals.

[00:26:20] Kalen Jordan: But then I, I looked and I was like, Oh, well there already are a couple apps that, , they're newer. They have like nine reviews. But they seem to be doing a good job of the registration and approval process. Um, so I'm like, what's the point? Like there's already a good app there.

[00:26:37] David: And in the original prompt, you said you were looking for opportunities, right? So maybe

[00:26:41] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[00:26:42] David: maybe you just have to be more clear about

[00:26:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[00:26:46] David: an it's only an opportunity if there isn't something else out there That doesn't have negative feedback already

[00:26:51] Kalen Jordan: yeah. That just seems, I'm trying to think like how is it doing this? And, it's probably doing a decent job of like crawling through reviews. But then.

[00:27:01] Kalen Jordan: When you say okay, and make sure there isn't another app already doing this like how I don't know if it's smart enough to do that Cross referencing, but I might just need to experiment a little bit

[00:27:14] David: gotcha.

[00:27:16] David: Not there yet

[00:27:18] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I mean I've kept seeing people saying that it's like insanely good at certain types of things.

[00:27:25] Kalen Jordan: I mean I think it's probably good at doing like reports like beefy reports, but I don't really want a beefy report. Like I just want it to tell me one thing

[00:27:36] David: Yeah, spend a lot of time and give me a tiny amount of input that tells me exactly what to

[00:27:41] David: do

[00:27:42] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, exactly.

[00:27:46] Kalen Jordan: So, I don't know. We'll see. I got to figure something out. I got to find an opportunity.

[00:27:52] David: I would love it if there was a way to like, like, you could get a notification on your phone that research was done and then you, I got to a point where I need some help, like, okay, the agent needs some direction. I can

[00:28:06] David: just jump in and give it some direction and then it'll go off and continue on.

[00:28:10] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Be cool if the thing could just spend like a full month, like as much time as it needed and just come back every once in a while. And then you tweak it and it just like cranks and cranks and cranks until it like finds the actual truth of some very specific question.

[00:28:31] David: Search a

[00:28:32] David: bunch of different terms in the Shopify app store and cram it all into your context. And then tell me.

[00:28:39] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I normally don't like that approach of like competitor research to find an app idea. I kind of just normally wait until something kind of just inspires me. But because it like the idea that it could do it all for me kind of made it like, okay, that could work. If it could spit something out and then I could go, Oh yeah, I like that idea.

[00:29:05] Kalen Jordan: Then it's kind of that goes back to that thing of reducing your context window I forget what you called it. Reducing like your, your, like your context basically, because like if, if I'm sitting there going okay, I'm going to research all of the different potential apps that I can build.

[00:29:23] Kalen Jordan: And then I'm going to blah blah blah. It's just like, there's so much. Stuff and you're just looking at other app problems, which is like kind of annoying Versus if it could just spit something out and then you go. Oh, yeah, that does sound kind of cool

[00:29:38] Kalen Jordan: Then I think I could get behind that type of an approach

[00:29:42] David: Yeah, agreed. There wouldn't be like, well, depending on how it was able to tell you its conclusion, like, the, here's the conclusion and here's why. I think this makes sense and then that helps you with your, like, oh, yeah, because you, you probably have things. Mm hmm. In your mind that, you know, we either work or not work. So that's how you personally, evaluate the suggestion. So, if it could do that work also, and just like, know what, what the things are that you would evaluate.

[00:30:16] Kalen Jordan: Right, right like maybe you could say here are some things I'm interested in or some things I've worked on recently Can you go find me? Can you validate whether? These are app categories that could use some help or something.

[00:30:32] David: That's cool. I haven't tried deep research yet. I feel like I'm behind, which is weird because, like, right now, I'm, we are our company offsite next week. And I have presentations to do for,

[00:30:45] David: like, how to save time using AI across all the different teams, like, going back to the basics of, okay, here's how you prompt. Here's why it's important to, like, start over if things are going off the rails.

[00:30:58] David: Because it's all like the, you know, the original question is part of the context. And so if you're not getting what you want, you're probably not going to get what you want

[00:31:07] David: by just continuing that conversation.

[00:31:10] David: So lots of like basic stuff like that.

[00:31:13] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:31:13] David: Yeah. things keep going.

[00:31:15] Kalen Jordan: You got to spin it. up for that talk. That's a good excuse to maybe expense that

[00:31:26] David: I tried signing up for a company, Chachi BT the other day, because I wanted to get A like, the thing that's confusing is when you get an API key, it's tied to a particular user.

[00:31:41] David: And so I wanted to get 1 that's tied to like a company. So that, like, if I get hit by a bus or whatever. the things will keep working.

[00:31:51] David: And so I signed up for a chat GPT company account. Turns out that's only for the chat. And in order to get an API key, \ you just have to get like a service account or something.

[00:32:03] Kalen Jordan: Ah, that's weird.

[00:32:05] David: It's a little disjointed, but,

[00:32:07] Kalen Jordan: That's wonky.

[00:32:08] David: it's casual.

[00:32:09] Kalen Jordan: Super crazy.

[00:32:11] David: How's your pencil? Situation going.

[00:32:15] Kalen Jordan: readjusting it right now, actually. Cause I started holding it with my hand cause the pencil was slipping and then I got tired of holding it with my hand. He totally called it. That's so funny. Dude, I gotta pull up my list of topics.

[00:32:39] David: to the list.

[00:32:41] Kalen Jordan: to the list. I did a GPT, list here, I put it into GPT so I could ask it for, for, uh, thingies, advice, topics. Why is my brain moving so slow right now, dude? I gotta speed it up. Oh, okay, here's a crazy one. Yeah, harsh deep. , posted

[00:33:10] David: guy.

[00:33:11] Kalen Jordan: about, um, Yeah, that guy, man, he's crazy. He posted this tactic he uses to pitch his app, which is just, which is wicked smat, which is that, he basically injects it and it's like a corporate gifting app, which I really don't understand what that means.

[00:33:29] David: me either.

[00:33:30] Kalen Jordan: I don't quite understand how people like certain cat, very, very, very specific categories I could imagine. Like if you sell fruit baskets, for you, like if you sell high end bags, like no, one's going to corporate gift that, or I don't know, but I'm sure

[00:33:46] David: do actually get a lot of corporate gifting, but it's

[00:33:48] David: very hands on. Like someone will order 40 travel case sets for their team.

[00:33:55] David: And then like we ship all those out, but it's not, on the site.

[00:34:00] David: But I'm interested to hear what you're about to say about it.

[00:34:03] Kalen Jordan: That's actually perfect because it was one of these categories where I was like, it doesn't make sense to me how people would possibly use it for that. And you're like, yep, people use it for that. And then I'm like, okay, now I, now I, now I, now I see why by intuition was just off for that one.

[00:34:21] Kalen Jordan: But yeah, basically he, um I will tell him to do it to you. Basically, he injects his app onto your site using he, he has a script that injects it using JavaScript as like a demo, and I think he just records it maybe, I don't know. I think he like injects it. On his end client side and then he records it, but it injects it and uses like your styles and stuff like that from your site so that it looks like it's actually installed.

[00:34:51] Kalen Jordan: And he said it's, it's converting really well when he does that. I was like, dude, that's so fucking smart.

[00:34:57] David: That is smart. yeah. So, it's like, uh, explaining the, like, I'm not super involved in the corporate gifting stuff, but I'm guessing the main thing is like, if you buy 40 of them, you get some level of discount.

[00:35:13] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, I'm not sure. Um, his app is called yak and I'm not sure how exactly it works, but I think it basically just, it just takes a process that tends to be manual, like you just said, and it just somehow lets people do it right in the site. directly in the site. You can just buy a bunch of gifts or something like that.

[00:35:35] Kalen Jordan: So.

[00:35:36] David: I have to go look at the app store page on that one.

[00:35:39] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. We got to pull that one up. He better have a dev store plan. If he doesn't have a dev store plan, it's, it's all over. Um, yeah. I have a question. Do you know how, uh, you know, cart transform functions

[00:35:56] David: Mm hmm.

[00:35:57] Kalen Jordan: What I'm trying to figure out is if you have, like, I have this store that has like four of them, like there's a couple of apps that they have bundle apps that use them.

[00:36:07] Kalen Jordan: \ there's a, uh, for like a first party app, that the developer built that uses one. So how is the priority order of different cart transform functions determined? I haven't been able to figure that out.

[00:36:21] David: Interesting. I know for things like fulfillment constraints, you can set the order.

[00:36:27] Kalen Jordan: Hmm.

[00:36:28] David: The back end in the admin, but for cart transform, that's a good question. it's based on the hash of the function.

[00:36:36] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, probably

[00:36:37] David: like that.

[00:36:38] Kalen Jordan: something crazy.

[00:36:41] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I gotta figure that What kind of cart transforms you got going? , we don't have anything that, does a cart transform?

[00:36:47] Kalen Jordan: oh, okay. Well, , for this bundle, situation, there's a car transform that does some pricing for bundle pricing. And then this other B2B side I'm working on, we have one that does pricing like customer. Basically like pricing for different company, , price tiers because the native B2B pricing wasn't quite flexible enough.

[00:37:08] Kalen Jordan: So we have one for that. Um,

[00:37:11] David: indication on the order data that a car transform function changed the price? Or like, how do you know?

[00:37:18] Kalen Jordan: um, no, accounting perspective. I don't think, there is any indication on the order. It's just like , once the order goes through, like that's the price. But I mean, from like for a bundle, let's say that , you have one products, 20 bucks, one is 10 bucks, but when you buy them in a bundle, you could do it different ways.

[00:37:40] Kalen Jordan: You could do a merge operation where you're merging those two products into one line item with a certain price. , or you could expand where you take one item, you expand it into multiple line items, or you could have, let's say you had, um, yeah, the $20 product, $10 product, and then you could just update the price of the $10 product to be free on the line item.

[00:38:06] Kalen Jordan: So then the order would just have, one line item was just free, the other one was 20 bucks.

[00:38:13] David: Interesting. I have to

[00:38:14] David: give that more thought. We haven't done anything like that, but maybe something like, the merge would be cool for systems. We have this like systems product that you can get add ons for, but we don't do anything with bundles on it. I guess merging would be cool in terms of like the customer display, but Also could have a custom price, but then I'm just thinking, cost calculation is probably weird there when it gets into the ERP without having some sort of, it's like our NetSuite situation is like every discount has a specific account it goes into and that account gets charged based on like the margin calculation.

[00:38:56] David: So like willy nilly changing prices sounds scary to me.

[00:39:00] Kalen Jordan: gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Gotcha. Interesting. Yeah. I was like, what do you mean by accounting? That makes sense.

[00:39:09] David: We also have like a, it's like leather products. So the margin isn't, it's already like not a, not a super high margin. So that's why maybe that's why we focus more on it than others.

[00:39:20] Kalen Jordan: right. Well, you guys are probably more sophisticated. Like a lot of people just aren't probably tracking their margins very well. And that's sweet. that's cool. It's not even a discount technically. As far as Shopify is concerned, when you do a car transform and the car transforms do apply.

[00:39:38] Kalen Jordan: One thing I do know is they do apply before discounts apply, generally, but I, I don't know how to determine the order of car transforms themselves. And then also I'm not exactly sure how to determine the order of discount functions either. If you've got a bunch of discount functions, posted to the forums, I'm trying to try to nail that down.

[00:40:00] David: Any nibbles on that one?

[00:40:02] Kalen Jordan: A couple of quick replies. nothing that really answered it. I'm starting to get this more where like a community person will reply to a forums post and it'll be like a decent reply. But then I kind of wish I kind of get the sense that when a post doesn't get any replies, the Shopify team, like make sure to reply to it.

[00:40:23] Kalen Jordan: And that's where you get like. That's where you get like a staff reply. That's actually good. So when I get these community replies that don't fully solve it, I'm like, damn it, why did you

[00:40:33] David: Yeah. My one chance.

[00:40:37] Kalen Jordan: me alone. Now, now all I can do is like tag Liam and nag him about

[00:40:42] David: Yeah.

[00:40:42] Kalen Jordan: asshole or

[00:40:44] David: Liam staff reply needed.

[00:40:47] Kalen Jordan: yeah, or just sit there with like no response.

[00:40:53] Kalen Jordan: So. Yeah.

[00:40:56] David: Can you rate the answer? Then we're getting into like stack overflow situation.

[00:41:01] Kalen Jordan: no, but I did report this one guy because this one guy was giving these like AI generated replies that were like, they, but in the system. they were like relatively good, but it was like the weird uncanny valley where you're like, I think this is useful, but it definitely looks AI generated, but it's sort of on topic, but it hasn't resolved the question.

[00:41:24] Kalen Jordan: thing for me and it's just like, it's just too many words and too many bullet points,

[00:41:30] David: seems sus. yeah. And it's just, prolonging this like indeterminate state of my question. So after like a hand, after seeing that guy do the same thing, I like reported it. And I put a pretty detailed message in the report. I basically said what I just said there, I was like, it's kind of good, but kind of not, and I'm kind of on the fence.

[00:41:53] Kalen Jordan: And then they replied to the report and they're like, yeah, we're keeping an eye on this guy. They're like, yeah, we're looking into it. But, it's like the

[00:42:05] David: There's nothing, is there anything to be gained from that? From just like posting answers in there? Do you get points

[00:42:10] Kalen Jordan: guess

[00:42:12] David: Maybe, maybe there might be at some point, and

[00:42:15] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, get

[00:42:16] David: there's accounts you can game them.

[00:42:18] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:42:19] David: That's fun.

[00:42:21] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, the, new forums are just generally in such a pristine state compared to the old forums.

[00:42:28] Kalen Jordan: Like anytime now, if I'm Googling something, I land on the old forums. I'm like, Oh God,

[00:42:34] David: Don't need that

[00:42:36] Kalen Jordan: I'm like

[00:42:37] David: either. It doesn't answer your question or it's an archived post and you can't actually read

[00:42:42] David: it anymore, but it's still in Google results.

[00:42:44] Kalen Jordan: Can't reply or it's from 2019 or even worse. It's from 2024, February. And you're like, ah, can I trust this? I'm not sure. , yeah, it's, it's a mess. It's a mess. It's brutal.

[00:43:04] David: What

[00:43:05] David: else you working on besides the, uh, the old bundles, anything cool going on?

[00:43:10] Kalen Jordan: I was doing a little, flow for some like location. This one client has a flow that, um, like deactivates and activates locations on a schedule.

[00:43:21] Kalen Jordan: Like they have a bunch of retail stores and they want to turn them off and on on like the weekend hours. I can't remember originally why exactly why they do that. It's a little weird, but it kind of makes sense. So I

[00:43:35] David: That's interesting. Is it, is it possible? So it unchecks the fulfill online orders from the store checkbox.

[00:43:43] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, and then it also has to assign them to a delivery profile. Which I can't even remember how those work. It's like I, I set this flow up like five months ago and then I can't even remember what the hell the delivery profile is anymore, but I have to, um, they emailed me cause there's some changes to the apis that they wanted me to look into.

[00:44:03] Kalen Jordan: So I'm like dusting off the cobwebs and trying to remember how it works. , Oh, one thing I did that was interesting. I, I open sourced that flow extensions. \ app that I was telling you about. So it

[00:44:14] David: heck yeah,

[00:44:15] Kalen Jordan: yeah. yeah. I got some nice likeage on that one. That was cool.

[00:44:19] David: That's the one that integrates with gadget. Yeah.

[00:44:22] Kalen Jordan: Yep. Gadget app.

[00:44:23] Kalen Jordan: It has a web hook trigger and it has an action so you can get in there and then quickly get, an action and a trigger, functioning. So that was cool. That was cool. Feels good to be open sourcing. Um,

[00:44:40] David: You never know, like people are going to use this thing or not. And now you'll find out

[00:44:45] Kalen Jordan: yeah,

[00:44:46] David: maybe get some inbounds from that bad boy.

[00:44:49] Kalen Jordan: yeah, yeah. Maybe hopefully not get a bunch of free support requests about it. I'm getting this error. Can you help me?

[00:44:59] Kalen Jordan: No,

[00:45:00] David: Nah.

[00:45:00] Kalen Jordan: alone.

[00:45:04] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, so that was cool. Got that spun up.

[00:45:08] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Oh, a, is there an additions coming up?

[00:45:13] Kalen Jordan: dude. So there's a, yeah, it's coming up in summer. I want to say June maybe, but I keep like, I keep having these like moments of fear where I'm like, Oh shit, did I forget to register? And it's going to be all, cause last time it got fully booked, like immediately. Oh, yikes. So I keep thinking like, Oh shit, did it?

[00:45:36] Kalen Jordan: Cause I don't think it's gone on sale. It hasn't gone on sale yet. , I think they announced it a month, a month or so ago. And

[00:45:44] David: and go this time.

[00:45:45] Kalen Jordan: dude, yeah, you definitely, definitely should go, man. Be good times. But I keep thinking like, Oh shit, did I miss it? And I got, I'm sure we'll see it pop up on Twitter when it goes on sale.

[00:45:57] David: Yeah.

[00:45:58] David: How does it compare to the old imagine? Are there any like hula hoopers or what? Like weird, weird

[00:46:05] David: entertainment or is it very like dev demo focused?

[00:46:09] Kalen Jordan: It's more dev focused, but I think they did have some man, I can barely remember if, if I think, I mean, it was big. It was, it was gigantic. I mean, it was huge. I thought it was gonna be like 50 people in a garage somewhere. It was like a, it was a huge venue, dude. I was blown away. But yeah, it wasn't like Vegas y though, you know, which is kind of nice.

[00:46:39] David: Yeah.

[00:46:40] Kalen Jordan: \ but I think they had some, probably had some music at the thing. It wasn't too crazy. Um,

[00:46:47] David: cool?

[00:46:48] Kalen Jordan: no, I didn't get too much. No, I didn't grab too much swag. I'm sure they had some stuff. But,

[00:47:01] David: I think I still have my, Snapchat glasses that I got from one year

[00:47:07] Kalen Jordan: oh, nice. That's cool. I remember those.

[00:47:12] David: So random.

[00:47:14] Kalen Jordan: I tried on those Ray Ban, , AI glasses at,

[00:47:18] David: Oh, from Meta?

[00:47:19] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:47:21] David: How is it?

[00:47:22] Kalen Jordan: dude, the, bone conducting audio, whatever is crazy.

[00:47:27] David: Oh, I've never tried that.

[00:47:29] Kalen Jordan: dude, it's the weirdest thing in the world. You put them on and you just start hearing audio in your ears

[00:47:36] David: Do

[00:47:36] David: they, do they also display, like, things on the glasses, or is that the, are those the new ones?

[00:47:42] Kalen Jordan: I didn't see it displaying anything. It would like, take a picture, and things like that, but the demo wasn't quite working like the volume controls weren't working. Not everything was working, for me. But just the audio is so crazy, but there's, I mean, there's that type of audio bone conducting audio has been around for a bit.

[00:48:03] Kalen Jordan: It should be just, that's the first time I've used it. It was really cool.

[00:48:07] David: Did it feel like, high quality, or was there any, did it seem like muffled or anything?

[00:48:11] Kalen Jordan: No, no, it sounded great. It sounded really good. Yeah. It's the weirdest

[00:48:17] David: I'll have to try that out. Hit up the old Target.

[00:48:20] Kalen Jordan: Swing by Tarjay. Check them out.

[00:48:23] David: Tar jay.

[00:48:26] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, that was pretty cool. So do you think you'll make it out to the event?

[00:48:33] David: I hope so. Yeah, I got a, I've been at Crianna for seven years, so I get to take a sabbatical this year. Maybe I'll like put it during that

[00:48:42] David: time or something like that.

[00:48:45] Kalen Jordan: That's awesome, dude. How long is this sabbatical?

[00:48:49] David: I think it's like six weeks

[00:48:52] Kalen Jordan: Damn, and I just get to do whatever I want, which is yeah, really interesting. But I also have to make sure that I can be gone for six weeks without having to like

[00:49:03] David: get on Slack and help something. But

[00:49:07] David: we'll figure it out.

[00:49:07] Kalen Jordan: cool. are you thinking about taking a trip or anything?

[00:49:11] David: I don't know. I guess I have to, I guess that's what You got to do Like go on some sort of vision quest.

[00:49:16] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. You to read some books, like improve my, improve myself somehow. I don't know. I've never done it before.

[00:49:25] Kalen Jordan: Dude, that's awesome. Read some management books or something.

[00:49:30] David: Yeah, exactly. Just get, wake up in the morning, get some coffee, get the kids to school and just read books.

[00:49:40] Kalen Jordan: Do some yoga, something, right. Find peace with my inner self.

[00:49:47] Kalen Jordan: Good luck.

[00:49:49] David: Yeah.

[00:49:50] Kalen Jordan: going to, that's going to take more than six weeks, man.

[00:49:53] David: Yeah. That's, like a trip up to the mountains to hang out with the Buddhists.

[00:49:58] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. I'd like to do that one of these days, do one of those like silent retreats with monks or something like that.

[00:50:06] David: Yeah.

[00:50:07] Kalen Jordan: That'd be cool.

[00:50:09] Kalen Jordan: Damn, dude. That's so cool. Six weeks. That's a long time.

[00:50:13] David: Yeah. I don't know what I'm going to do to

[00:50:15] David: ask deep research. When is it? Yeah. When does it start?

[00:50:22] David: I got to figure that out

[00:50:24] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:50:26] David: probably

[00:50:27] David: sometime during the summer. Cause you can't like can't get too close to holiday. I got like this AB testing program. I'm trying to keep going right now. We have this, um, program of every two weeks we start a new A B test

[00:50:42] Kalen Jordan: Mm.

[00:50:43] David: like super consistent. We have a UX designer helping us

[00:50:47] David: and we have like this goal of one in four tests has to succeed.

[00:50:52] David: So

[00:50:52] David: that's where like, you know, I was doing all the customer research last year and all that stuff.

[00:50:57] Kalen Jordan: Yeah.

[00:50:58] David: So that's a little bit stressful. Got to try and get that going. We're halfway through our first test

[00:51:03] David: and didn't do great. It was kind of a, kind of a lame test that we just wanted to see if, if it would help at all.

[00:51:11] David: we noticed that a lot of people were clicking on the dimensions and care section on the PDP. So we were thinking, maybe it makes sense to surface that somewhere above the fold. So we threw it into

[00:51:23] David: the description area, and added like a show more there, but that's not doing well. So we got a, Pivot that bad boy,

[00:51:31] Kalen Jordan: Okay,

[00:51:32] David: then we're going into our next one on Tuesday.

[00:51:35] David: It's like every Tuesday stop the old test start a new one So we just have this cadence going

[00:51:40] Kalen Jordan: nice

[00:51:41] David: so I got to make sure that can go while I'm out

[00:51:45] Kalen Jordan: Okay,

[00:51:47] David: and all that stuff

[00:51:49] Kalen Jordan: that's cool. You got any other AB test ideas lined up

[00:51:54] David: Yeah, I have like a set we're trying to do it through July. So we have like 10 tests. Some of them are like require us to make changes to other parts of the site. Like we need to update our materials pages. And it's a lot of different things is like

[00:52:09] David: the main thing I'm focusing on most of the time.

[00:52:12] Kalen Jordan: hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:52:13] David: But it's cool.

[00:52:13] David: We're using post hog. I don't know if I ever talked about post hog on

[00:52:18] David: here, but it's, uh, it's like, have you ever used heap, heap analytics, the

[00:52:24] David: edit, like a basic level. It just tracks every time someone clicks something.

[00:52:30] David: So you click on an, on a button. It gets an event for the title of that button, the CSS classes, the URL that they were on when they clicked it and all that stuff, and then later you can go in and say, how many people clicked this certain button and then converted.

[00:52:47] David: And so you can go through and, get some really cool information. Like, we saw only 20 percent of the people who were,, who saw the test for the show more link with the description.

[00:52:58] David: only 20 percent of the people who saw that part of the test actually clicked show more. So it's nice to like understand what's actually going on, which is surprisingly hard. But post hoc does it really well and pretty cheap.

[00:53:13] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, what are they chadge?

[00:53:16] David: They chad, , it's per like million events. So we ended up spending like, I don't know, like a couple hundred dollars a month for events, but they, like, they don't have a sales team. You just go and like the first million events are free. And then after that, from 1 million to 3 million, it's like certain amount. But I feel like it's pretty accessible and it's easy to throw onto the site too. You just, it's like integrating Google analytics.

[00:53:47] Kalen Jordan: Nice.

[00:53:48] David: Then you get to do all of the post hoc analysis. How

[00:53:52] Kalen Jordan: Nice. What's the damage on this, uh, post hoc, opportunity?

[00:53:58] David: how many post hogs you got out there? What are you gonna judge for them? It's cute. They got like a, so post hog, it's like hedgehog

[00:54:06] David: and you can pick your little hedgehog to run around and like jump on top of your graphs and stuff to show you. It's cool.

[00:54:15] Kalen Jordan: Wasn't there this thing you were telling me you used for A B testing? It was like an open source thing?

[00:54:21] David: Yeah. That's a growth book.

[00:54:23] Kalen Jordan: Yes.

[00:54:24] David: book is the is, like, the feature flag thing where you can go in and say, like, okay, for variation 1, I want you to run this JavaScript and

[00:54:34] David: CSS. So that's what actually does the shortening of the description

[00:54:37] David: and also handles, like, who should get which experiment. And then it also hooks up to big query and runs off of Google analytics events. So you can say, um, what's the conversion rate for mobile versus desktop? What's the add to bag rate and the begin checkout rate. And since Shopify sends all that stuff to Google analytics, it just pulls in from big query

[00:55:02] David: and can tell us what's going on. So the, the combo of like growth book and post hog, I think is. Super cool. And, and they're both kind of in that, like, we don't have sales teams, just install the thing and pay us per usage. And so

[00:55:18] David: it's, it's great.

[00:55:19] Kalen Jordan: That's the name of the game. Don't have to

[00:55:21] David: That's it.

[00:55:23] Kalen Jordan: some sales, dude God

[00:55:27] David: Just tell me your pricing. Don't make me get on a phone. Like I've never been on a call with either of them, but they have a. Like growth book has a slack channel so you can go in and ask him for help.

[00:55:38] Kalen Jordan: No, that's cool

[00:55:40] David: It's so cool, dude But like the software that's out there for people to just self serve is so it's so great.

[00:55:48] Kalen Jordan: Yeah, a lot of software out there these days a

[00:55:53] David: It's only gonna grow everybody's getting their vibe coding on with uh Vs code just like feeling it and getting stuff out there

[00:56:02] Kalen Jordan: Yeah

[00:56:03] David: That's pretty cool.

[00:56:05] Kalen Jordan: That word bothers me because it's like, I know that that's going to stick because it's

[00:56:12] David: Yeah, it stops like right away.

[00:56:15] Kalen Jordan: it just sticks,

[00:56:17] David: Karpathy said

[00:56:17] David: something about vibe coding and now I see it all the time.

[00:56:21] Kalen Jordan: dude, when I first read that tweet, I saw in my feed or I think Gil mentioned it or somebody mentioned it, I'm reading this thing. And I didn't recognize the name or the Twitter avatar.

[00:56:33] Kalen Jordan: So I totally thought it was some annoying AI bro. That was like, yeah, I just bought it out and did it. I was like, this guy's such, I was, as I was reading it, I was like, well, this kind of is what I do, but I would never describe it as like, I was like, I was like,

[00:56:54] David: offended someone figured it out.

[00:56:56] Kalen Jordan: no, it wasn't that. It was like, I wouldn't describe it this way.

[00:57:01] Kalen Jordan: He's describing in such a douchey way. And then after I read it, I was like, why does that name look familiar? And I was like, Oh, shit.

[00:57:10] David: It's

[00:57:11] Kalen Jordan: guy's way smarter than me. Yeah. But it's like, it's more, it's just natural language coding. It's not like, I mean, it's not like, like vibe. It just sounds like you're just, it's sensing how you feel.

[00:57:29] Kalen Jordan: It's not sensing how you feel. You're just like, you're saying things and,

[00:57:34] David: the code at all.

[00:57:35] Kalen Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't know. I mean even calling it like hands free coding or something would be better. It just something about the phrase bothers me, but it's already stuck even in my head. It's stuck in there. And I'm like, all right, I guess we got to live with this.

[00:57:52] Kalen Jordan: That's

[00:57:53] David: we're vibing now.

[00:57:54] Kalen Jordan: good place to